Rewall in cw, but not a rewall???? a Huarckwall? a Serbwall?

WARNING: BIG TEXT AHEAD.

So today I played a cw vs Prestige. t2 i broke the paris wall from Pavle, nothing too crazy. But this happend.

https://img001.prntscr.com/file/img001/5d2_ErMDRNSKbkLVSZpEtw.png (ignore the red circle)

First thing I did was of course, to accuse of rewall (for the sake of context, this was how the wall originally looked https://prnt.sc/PdGTYFOx3ejq ) However, Pavle said this was a Huarck wall. To be honest, I had never heard of a Huarck wall before. So I was confused. This is the video he showed about the Huarck wall

But I was convinced that this was a rewall, there was no other way in my opinion. So I discussed with Pavle post cw. this was his answer https://prnt.sc/4GEeEZ_PCRjh (and, by the way, after this he muted me) So I messaged BeSerok (his tm8 in the cw) to tell him something about the Pavle thing, which to be honest I can't remember, but it wasn't aggresive towards BeSerok or Pavle. So, the answer I got? That he didn't know what had happend, and he apologized if Pavle did something he shouldn't have. After showing him all the proof I had, he agreed with Pavle, it was a Huarckwall.

Now I'm double confused. I couldn't talk with Panda, because he logged off instantly after the cw, so I had no one to discuss this issue. So I decided on something. I could test it out, and talk about this with Temp, since he was the only other comp player on at that moment.

So with all the proof, he agreed on something: He did not think it was a rewall on purpouse, but it was an unintentional rewalled.
I also asked Khau on Discord, this was his answer https://prnt.sc/W-deooxR4lzR

Plus it was even more confusing that in the HuarckWall video the result was not even close to what Pavle got https://prnt.sc/35H8HZeVpo1D, But then we figured probably his units merged.

But I was still confused, because I had never heard of a Huarckwall, and I also wanted to give Pavle the benefit of the doubt, although he could not defend himself because he had me muted... so Temp Khau and I decided to do something: Let's test this! Temp recorded the entire session, which you can see here on this youtube video

So, basically if you don't wanna watch the entire video, it took us some attempts to get the result pavle got, but we did, although it was not as perfect as the pavle one. (If you are confused why Temp did something different that the one shown in the Huarck video, it's because we had to recreate the effect of Pavle units merging) However, Pavle made a perfect 3 unit wall, not like anything in the video which is close to not covering Paris.

So now we ended with more questions than answers, Khau still insisted that it was a rewall, Temp said it was a sort of self-serbwall combined with an autowall (which I don't agree with the term, by the way) but even then, I believe Pavle tried it the next turn (this time i placed a wf) https://prnt.sc/2RZOrPR8XcjJ and this was the result next turn https://prnt.sc/YLHZLPpeSGHO

So, we had finished the testing. My opinion? I don't have one. At first it was clear for me that it was a Rewall, but later it was clear it was not, because you can see that his units actually didn't move to place 3 more units.

Now I REALLY want Pavle to defend himself, because it looks like i'm accusing him of something, but i'm actually more confused than anything, but let's say all of what Pavle said is true, and that all of this is a big missunderstanding. Should this be legal? because the way to prevent it is to place a unit next to the wall, which is, in fact, the same way to prevent a rewall. This feels in a sort of... grey area. So now, please answer the poll above. Imo it should be illegal, but I've been playing atwar for over 5 years and i'm a r11, with more than 2.5k duels played, and I've never seen this happen or even hear of this.

I would say that this is NOT A REWALL.
You can tell from the ss that Pavle tried to do the Huarck wall which I think is perfectly legal and a smart use of autowall mechanics, however, his units merged so his bigwall failed.


What happened instead, mechanically, was shown in my video.


As you can see, I am not rewalling. what is happening is actually what I would say serbwalling on your own capital. People often don't consider this and think you can only serbwall on other cities but no, you can serbwall on your own cities as well. Now, obviously Pavle did not do this on purpose as seen from the screenshot. So, I would say that this was completely unintentional and not done on purpose because you can see that Pavle tried to make a bigwall around his cap.

My final say on this issue is that it was an unintentional serbwall on your own cap (mixed with autowall mechanics), which was meant to be a Hurack wall. So, I would say that this was a complete accident and that Pavle is Innocent. Now, obviously I would say this is not legal and if I were in Prestige's position I would offer a tie but that is their issue not mine xdddd.

#Temp4Supporter
btw your welcome Pavle g

You are all so gay

Написано от nutt, 08.10.2024 at 19:39

You are all so gay

Fair enough

Too much text, I will wait for some1 to write a summary for me.

Написано от Lil Rain, 08.10.2024 at 20:13

Too much text, I will wait for some1 to write a summary for me.

rewall ahhhh

Написано от Lil Rain, 08.10.2024 at 20:13

Too much text, I will wait for some1 to write a summary for me.

Not that long

Написано от nutt, 08.10.2024 at 20:15

Написано от Lil Rain, 08.10.2024 at 20:13

Too much text, I will wait for some1 to write a summary for me.

rewall ahhhh

Not a rewall

What about we stop arguing about whether this is rewall and play in a way that maximises fun for everyone instead of playing to win like it matters?

(By which I mean: Not do this)

This is not a rewall

For me it's still a grey area, not a rewall, but it's something. While this doesn't particularly sit well in my stomach, I also know that AW is spaghetti code and there's nothing I can do to stop it. In addition, I played the next turn and left, so if there was, hypothetically, any question into the cw, we lost fair and square by that logic. I'm going to chalk this up to "gg it is what it is if you're gonna do it just not with me please and thanks"

What u expect from pavle he got caught for using bugs now hes using grey area tactics like huark wall , its not classic rewall but its shady stuff.
Funny thing is when huark was doing this to him he always cried and moan and some other ppl too , so my advise is do huarkwalls vs him from now on too cus he gave u green light

Написано от Ghostface, 10.10.2024 at 11:58

What u expect from pavle he got caught for using bugs now hes using grey area tactics like huark wall , its not classic rewall but its shady stuff.
Funny thing is when huark was doing this to him he always cried and moan and some other ppl too , so my advise is do huarkwalls vs him from now on too cus he gave u green light

Pro advice from the EC goat

I give you green light to do this against me.
I will do everything legal to win the game, as long as it is not: serb wall, rewall, t1 wf.
Always have that in premise when playing against me.
Aside from that, I am not going to defend myself - I did not do anything we consider wrong there. As for legality of the huarck wall, I will quote Dave:

Написано от Dave, 20.03.2022 at 21:47

As far as game mechanics goes.... if the game lets you do it, it's legal. (I mean if it lets you without opening your browser console or hacking code -- that's different, obviously.)

We're not going to make any new rules about walls. I don't want to get into the business of judging whether one end is a few pixels too far, blah blah blah. Rewalls, serbwalls, wallfucks t1 -- so what. That's just the nature of the game.

...And for the record it's pretty clear WD didn't do anything wrong here, I'm just talking in general that we shouldn't have rules about walls to begin with. Then we wouldn't have these stupid arguments.

We agreed even during the previous ownership of the game that we do not allow rewall, serbwall, wf t1 in cw. As GF said, Huarck used to do huarckwall for years, and would still do it if he was active. He is not the only one, I am using them aswell. I am not the only one either.

Написано от Pavle, 12.10.2024 at 14:36

I give you green light to do this against me.
I will do everything legal to win the game, as long as it is not: serb wall, rewall, t1 wf.
Always have that in premise when playing against me.
Aside from that, I am not going to defend myself - I did not do anything we consider wrong there. As for legality of the huarck wall, I will quote Dave:

Написано от Dave, 20.03.2022 at 21:47

As far as game mechanics goes.... if the game lets you do it, it's legal. (I mean if it lets you without opening your browser console or hacking code -- that's different, obviously.)

We agreed even during the previous ownership of the game that we do not allow rewall, serbwall, wf t1 in cw. As GF said, Huarck used to do huarckwall for years, and would still do it if he was active. He is not the only one, I am using them aswell. I am not the only one either.

Oh i see why range bug is legal now, time to abuse because i dont have to do anything with the console or code

I think that at this point every game should be recorded, it's impossible to know if someone did something intentionally or not, I could say that I didn't want that wall but deep down, I know that I did it to gain an unfair advantage. Not everyone reads the rules or knows about these things.

Написано от Frieren, 12.10.2024 at 14:56

Oh i see why range bug is legal now, time to abuse because i dont have to do anything with the console or code

The range bug should be fixed urgently as it is easy to replicate but for a person who doesn't have time to look at the battle screen or doesn't know about these things, it is an unfair advantage.
I personally would rather do my turn than spend 2 minutes on the battle screen.

Написано от Pavle, 12.10.2024 at 14:36

I give you green light to do this against me.
[...]
As GF said, Huarck used to do huarckwall for years, and would still do it if he was active. He is not the only one, I am using them aswell. I am not the only one either.

Ok, I will start to rewall WF t1 and serbwall, anyways I give the greenlight for everyone to do it aswell !



Regarding the Dave statement from over 2 years ago, I will quote him." I'm just talking in general that we shouldn't have rules about walls to begin with." So, by this statement, this should mean that rewall serbwall and wf t1 shouldn't be illegal in his opinion. Just keep that in mind.



and as for the final statement, I find it similar to what I told Evqze today. https://prnt.sc/UBmQxHsTrMhN



By the way, Belligerent won't cw against you any longer. This tactic is sketchy as fuck, and we don't want to cw against someone that does this. This shouldn't be a problem to Prestige anyways since they are the most active clan in the game.



Ps: I find it disgusting that the head supporter is doing this sort of gray area things. Even more so when u come of a 1 month ban for abusing a range bug. IMO it should have been permanent, and even more so I completly disagree on the fact that you somehow kept your position. But that's not up to me, that's on Dave probably.

O.ç huarck stole my 40 elo with that inbred rewall

Написано от Palmitas, 12.10.2024 at 15:26

zip

I'm not sure why you're trying to create conflict here. I simply responded to your comments in your post. I am playing to win, and wanted to give you a clear reply regarding what you should and shouldn't expect from me in cw. When I say I play to win, I want to highlight that it does not mean I would not give a tie to a clan over sincere connection problems or similiar issues. I also clearly stated that I don't approve of wf t1, rewall, or serbwall, but I do use and approve of the Huarck wall when used against me. We never even spoke about not allowing the use of huarck wall before. I myself have been farmed by huarck using his own huarck wall. I even malded at him at first, we all have weak moments and decide to give in to anger and rage. I moved on and learnt the move myself.

I have no interest in arguing with you. You're free to boycott CWs with me if you wish, but consider whether it's smart or justified. The competitive scene survives thanks to just 10 active players, and your reason for boycotting seems to be that you lost. You accused me of rewalling, even though your own screenshot shows I didn't move my wall. After I explained that it wasn't rewalling, you made this post. Tempest even explained and made videos showing you a similar situation, and you eventually admitted that you hadn't seen the mechanic I used before. Instead of thanking me for teaching you a new move, you started the drama.
Ultimately, this issue arose from your own lack of familiarity with the certain game mechanic. If you played more CWs and less 1k gambling, you might have learned about the Huarck wall sooner. I responded in good faith to explain my stance on the mechanic's legality because you asked me to.

I don't understand why you're maintaining this hostility toward me, but feel free to continue your witch-hunt and boycott if that's what makes you happy.

Few useful links regarding all this useless and unnecessary drama:
[2022] CW Season Rules
Common Courtesy Guidelines 2.0
Do we seriously have to do this, again? (Khau-WD Drama and Dave's reply)

P.S And really, comparing browser-based game drama to rape?

Написано от Pavle, 12.10.2024 at 16:36

[...]
I don't understand why you're maintaining this hostility toward me, but feel free to continue your witch-hunt and boycott if that's what makes you happy.

"I'm not sure why you're trying to create conflict here. I simply responded to your comments in your post. I clearly stated that I don't approve of wf t1, rewall, or serbwall, but I do use and approve of the Huarck wall when used against me." I responded to your comments aswell. I don't know what the end of this paragraph has to do with what i said, but I can say I do not approve the use of the Huarckwall when used against me.

"You're free to boycott CWs with me if you wish, but consider whether it's smart or justified." Smart? Yes because I won't accept playing against someone that is sketchy. Justified? OFC.

"The competitive scene survives thanks to just 10 active players, and your reason for boycotting seems to be that you lost." That's not the reason i'm boycotting and it just seems that u are completly forgotting the main post. 10 active players? I can count more than that.
Belligerent 5: Me, Niels, Panda , IHY and Zappa,
BD 2 : Blade, Dominicano
Hellenism 4: Brutal, Khauman, Almighty and Lokua
Enigma 3: Tempest, Dominoz, Lucifer
Prestige 7: Tung, Alpen, 1122, Vink, BeSerok, Styx Doktor and you.
Paradox 2: Lelouch, Croat.
That is 23 players. 24 If u count Kogi who just deleted his account. This was off the top of my head, Could have missed someone aswell. 23 players in the scene and you still do sketchy things for your own benefit. Same with the rangebug, there is almost no scene and you still are doing this, cws are more for fun than anything else, not really to compete.

"You accused me of rewalling, even though your own screenshot shows I didn't move my wall. After I explained that it wasn't rewalling, you made this post." Well you muted me so I had no way of reaching you. You were rather offended by the fact that I said I accused of a rewall.

"Tempest even explained and made videos showing you a similar situation, and you eventually admitted that you hadn't seen the mechanic I used before." I asked him personally for it and you can see i'm the one breaking the wall in his video. The only reason he made the video was because I asked to have someone to test it with. By the way, he ended up saying it was a "self-serbwall", which would in fact not be legal (he said it!).

"Instead of thanking me for teaching you a new move, you created this drama." Yeah thank you Pavle for teaching me to do a sketchy mechanic. Didn't thank you before. The drama is because I could not fucking reach you for more questions. Oh, and even then I would still have made the post because this doesn't sit right with me.

"If you played more CWs and less 1k gambling, you might have learned about the Huarck wall sooner." Don't think so, because by the time I played a lot of 1k duels was at the season with 3 CWs played all season. Oh, and I still cw'ed whenever I could, Refering to last season where there was some activity after all. Oh, and I wouldn't have learnt about the Huarckwall because you are the only fucking person in this game who does it (And still plays). Maybe someone did it in the past and still plays but they no longer do it.

"I responded in good faith to explain my stance on the mechanic's legality because you asked me to." I would have been surprised if you would have been against the mechanic's legality. Your stance was clear when u did it in a CW. This post was more for asking general opinions, and showing the evidence.

"I don't understand why you're maintaining this hostility toward me, but feel free to continue your witch-hunt and boycott if that's what makes you happy." zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

ps: U edited ur post zzz, I won't answer any of your bullcrap again. For me this issue is done, and you are defending the indefendable.

Написано от Palmitas, 12.10.2024 at 17:04

"self-serbwall", which would in fact not be legal (he said it!).

Serbwall is completely destroying enemy 3 unit wall and making your own wall around the same city the same turn. I have no idea how situation in the screenshot would be "self-serbwall".

Написано от Pavle, 12.10.2024 at 17:10

Написано от Palmitas, 12.10.2024 at 17:04

"self-serbwall", which would in fact not be legal (he said it!).

Serbwall is completely destroying enemy 3 unit wall and making your own wall around the same city the same turn. I have no idea how situation in the screenshot would be "self-serbwall".

u really quoted the dumbest part of what i said to get a reply huh.
That was said by tempest. If you disagree, talk to him. Funny how thats the only thing u quoted, and it's not something i said.

Написано от Palmitas, 12.10.2024 at 17:18

u really quoted the dumbest part of what i said to get a reply huh.
That was said by tempest. If you disagree, talk to him. Funny how thats the only thing u quoted, and it's not something i said.

The remainder of your message felt more opinion-based, and I don't think there would be much value to me replying. It seems we'd just be going in circles - like debating whether a melon is a fruit or a vegetable. As the master of off topic balkan flamewars, I know when to stop.
I see that we have different perspectives on the matter of legality of huarck wall, and I respect that. In my eyes, it is not sketchy, and as I said I approve of the move. You don't think so. It looks like we're at an impasse, and there's no need to escalate this further. For me, this topic is now closed. Let's move forward peacefully, even if we disagree.

Написано от Palmitas, 12.10.2024 at 17:04

ps: U edited ur post zzz, I won't answer any of your bullcrap again. For me this issue is done, and you are defending the indefendable.

Написано от Pavle, 12.10.2024 at 17:10

Написано от Palmitas, 12.10.2024 at 17:04

"self-serbwall", which would in fact not be legal (he said it!).

Serbwall is completely destroying enemy 3 unit wall and making your own wall around the same city the same turn. I have no idea how situation in the screenshot would be "self-serbwall".

Mechanically, what happened was like the inverse of a serbwall, but obviously looking at the ss it was done my accident (as I said before) so that's what I had observed. It was also obvious you tried to do a huarck wall, which is legal.