Abortus

Написано от Acquiesce, 11.04.2016 at 21:35

Написано от Heat Check, 11.04.2016 at 21:14

Lol there's no point in you guys arguing over this. There will always be a clear divide and both sides will never concede that they could possibly be wrong. Go play some games, AW is no place for serious discussions like this

Well actually for someone like me who is not really convinced about it either way threads like this are interesting

It's good to hear their opinions, but like all other argument based threads, we know where this is headed

Написано от Zenith, 11.04.2016 at 21:42

Написано от Tundy, 11.04.2016 at 21:39

Написано от Zenith, 11.04.2016 at 18:51

A happily married women for 10 years gets brutally raped in the streets. She is now impregnated with a child (which she learns about the very next day). And let's say she is in the financial position to raise a kid, so she keeps it.
Two years pass, the woman's husband is dead, the woman is in complete poverty, and can barely provide for herself. To avoid the responsibility of caring for her child, she kills him. She is discovered killing the child, and charged with murder.

So its murder after two years but not two years earlier?

What if you were that unborn baby due to rape, would you want your mother to kill you?
Knowing you, I bet you be like: "Kill me, I don't wanna live in poverty."

Honestly, that's basically suicide.

The rapist doesn't deserve to have his gens in the gen-pool. Unwanted pregnancies can be prevented and the mother bears responsibility for them, Rapes can't be prevented and the mother is not at fault.

Still murder, you are taking a live, no matter how it came into the world.
Look I said I'm done here. Stop quoting me people.

It all depends on how you want to define personhood. If you define a person broadly enough to include a collection of undeveloped inside somebody else's body, then yes, of course abortion should be considered murder.

I myself, on the other hand, don't define a person that broadly, and am therefore strongly in favour of abortion as a woman's right, provided that the foetus is at that stage in development where it cannot survive in the incubator.

In my considered and secular opinion, if a collection of human cells is completely and totally dependent on a person for all its bodily functions, including nutrition, sanitation, homeostasis, etc. etc., and there exists no medical alternative that could possibly replace this aid, then the collection of cells should not be considered a separate person, but rather a part of the person on whom that collection of cells depend on.

Since cutting off bits of your body is, the last time I checked, uncontroversially legal, abortion should also be legal unless the foetus is sufficiently developed to sustain, at least with medical aid, its own independent bodily functions.

But again, I would like to emphasise the point that this entire debate boils down to how you want to define "person," and that's something that's determined by your morals and beliefs, not scientific reasoning.

Написано от Goblin, 11.04.2016 at 18:07

Its their body... no it isnt, its a body of a separate organism.

According to my middle class science class (that I still somehow remember), "life" consists of several parts, one of which is a clear and distinct boundary between the outside and the inside. With underdeveloped foetuses, that are physically connected to the hosts' body with no clear barrier between the two, it's difficult to say that this requirement is fulfilled.

Furthermore, a collection of cells should, according to Biology Online, be able to maintain homeostasis to be considered an organism. Since an underdeveloped foetus is unable to regulate its own internal conditions, it's not an organism, at least according to that definition.

It is definitely a debatable point whether a foetus in its first weeks of existence should be considered an organism.

Написано от Viruslegion, 11.04.2016 at 20:47

Написано от Zenith, 11.04.2016 at 20:28

LOL proven fact we evolved from apes. Why aren't apes evolving today into more humans? The real question is, why are there still apes? Its been,

Oh god please don't say that and then post about how abortion is wrong, it makes the rest of us that think abortion is wrong look bad

Don't worry about it. We recognise that there are ignorant people on both sides of the argument. You ignore the idiots on our side and we'll ignore them on yours.

Написано от International, 11.04.2016 at 22:59

if a collection of human cells is completely and totally dependent on a person for all its bodily functions, including nutrition, sanitation, homeostasis, etc. etc., and there exists no medical alternative that could possibly replace this aid, then the collection of cells should not be considered a separate person, but rather a part of the person on whom that collection of cells depend on.

Couldn't this also describe a newborn baby? Also a collection of human cells dependent on its mother for nutrition (feeding), sanitation (cleaning), and a range of other things. No hope for survival independently.

Написано от International, 11.04.2016 at 22:59

It all depends on how you want to define personhood. If you define a person broadly enough to include a collection of undeveloped inside somebody else's body, then yes, of course abortion should be considered murder.

I myself, on the other hand, don't define a person that broadly, and am therefore strongly in favour of abortion as a woman's right, provided that the foetus is at that stage in development where it cannot survive in the incubator.

In my considered and secular opinion, if a collection of human cells is completely and totally dependent on a person for all its bodily functions, including nutrition, sanitation, homeostasis, etc. etc., and there exists no medical alternative that could possibly replace this aid, then the collection of cells should not be considered a separate person, but rather a part of the person on whom that collection of cells depend on.

1) So in other words, your morals are sorely dependent on the amount of technology that we have? Its completely moral to kill a unborn child right now because we can't keep him alive outside of a woman's body, but it will be unmoral once we have technology to keep the unborn baby alive?. This is why basing your principles in the natural state of man is much better than basing them on Time. Technocracy and Socialism only create a false sense of morality.

2) Would you consider Conjoined twins as the same individual?

Написано от International, 11.04.2016 at 22:59

Since cutting off bits of your body is, the last time I checked, uncontroversially legal, abortion should also be legal unless the foetus is sufficiently developed to sustain, at least with medical aid, its own independent bodily functions.

So once we invent the technology to keep unborn children alive, what should people think about those who were fine with abortion in the past?

Написано от International, 11.04.2016 at 22:59

But again, I would like to emphasise the point that this entire debate boils down to how you want to define "person," and that's something that's determined by your morals and beliefs, not scientific reasoning.

its only an argument because the left loves to bastardize words and change their definition as it seems fit.

Написано от International, 11.04.2016 at 18:07

According to my middle class science class (that I still somehow remember), "life" consists of several parts, one of which is a clear and distinct boundary between the outside and the inside. With underdeveloped foetuses, that are physically connected to the hosts' body with no clear barrier between the two, it's difficult to say that this requirement is fulfilled.

Furthermore, a collection of cells should, according to Biology Online, be able to maintain homeostasis to be considered an organism. Since an underdeveloped foetus is unable to regulate its own internal conditions, it's not an organism, at least according to that definition.

It is definitely a debatable point whether a foetus in its first weeks of existence should be considered an organism.

I am a 100% sure that anything composed of more than 1 cell is an organism.

Написано от Khal.eesi, 11.04.2016 at 18:40

Написано от Goblin, 11.04.2016 at 18:07

Its their body... no it isnt, its a body of a separate organism.

The biological processes of a foetus are not independent - they exist only as an extension of the mother's own biological system - like her leg.

Who in the right mind... would cut of their own leg khal.

Your argument is a fallacy btw. dependence or independence of a foetus isnt proof of its non existence as a separate life form. Hell a baby is still dependent of its mother long after it passes the foetus stage.

Pinpoint to me the moment you believe it becomes one... pinpoint to me the second that you believe it becomes killing.

Fetus get oxygen from the mother through the umbilical cord's blood stream. Therefore it's a living being anything done to cut the development of this human being is nothing but merciless murder. Whether the woman got pregnant because of a rape, or unprotected sex the unborn baby is not at fault. A pregnant woman that consider something like abortion, should undergo a forcible cesarean, and to leave the baby in hospital in an incubator without the right to visit or hear about the baby her entire life. In some circumstances like rape the woman should have the right to hear what's going on with the baby if she wants.

Ps, don't quote me I'm not bothered to argue with you.

@international

When in doubt about something, its debatable as you say... you decide to maybe murder because its not certain.

Throw a grenade into a house... there might be or not people in it.

Написано от Darkmace, 11.04.2016 at 18:16

We later learn 1 month later that a family of 12 is found dead due to starvation.

It is hard to starve in Europe, Americas, Russia and China, even India. There are people's kitchens, charities, government policies like social help and welfare.

Only regions where people can starve is Africa and Middle East for now. So let's not exaggerate.

Написано от Acquiesce, 11.04.2016 at 21:35

Написано от Heat Check, 11.04.2016 at 21:14

Lol there's no point in you guys arguing over this. There will always be a clear divide and both sides will never concede that they could possibly be wrong. Go play some games, AW is no place for serious discussions like this

Well actually for someone like me who is not really convinced about it either way threads like this are interesting

Do you like bacon?

Написано от Khal.eesi, 11.04.2016 at 19:27

Science is not in the business of saying, thats religions turf. rather using science we can observe the relationship between the mother and the embryo , which is created from the mothers cells. and feeds on her bloodstream until birth, just like any other organ. what does a seperate organism even mean? What is the definition? Would love to see it.

Just shut up your mouth if you are not forwarded into science. Yes, embrio is a separated organism and no, it's not 'same as every other organ as you are claiming.

Here is a site of things clarified by science, not as your quasi wannabe scientific sites as you replied to TikTok.

'An embryo is a living organism, like a full-grown rose bush, frog, or human. It has the same needs—food, oxygen, warmth, and protection—that the adult organism has. These needs are provided for in a variety of ways by different kinds of organisms.'

Read more: http://www.scienceclarified.com/El-Ex/Embryo-and-Embryonic-Development.html#ixzz45bLkEUNA

Furthermore,
definition of embrio from a medicial dictionary:

'Embryo: An organism in the early stages of growth and differentiation, from fertilization to the beginning of the third month of pregnancy (in humans). After that point in time, an embryo is called a fetus.'

Medical dictionary Sources: http://www.medicinenet.com/script/main/mobileart.asp?articlekey=3225

http://medical-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/embryo

More furthermore,
what science says about start of human life:
http://fallibleblogma.com/index.php/when-does-science-say-human-life-begins/

---

Now let me post you plenty of scientific researches, books, sites, medical and science dictionaries and scientists who clarified that embrio is a separated organism, not some 'another organ' or thing like leg, you can go and check every suorce I am posting to you:

1.
"Development of the embryo begins at Stage 1 when a sperm fertilizes an oocyte and together they form a zygote."
[England, Marjorie A. Life Before Birth. 2nd ed. England: Mosby-Wolfe, 1996, p.31]

2.
"Human development begins after the union of male and female gametes or germ cells during a process known as fertilization (conception).
"Fertilization is a sequence of events that begins with the contact of a sperm (spermatozoon) with a secondary oocyte (ovum) and ends with the fusion of their pronuclei (the haploid nuclei of the sperm and ovum) and the mingling of their chromosomes to form a new cell. This fertilized ovum, known as a zygote, is a large diploid cell that is the beginning, or primordium, of a human being."
[Moore, Keith L. Essentials of Human Embryology. Toronto: B.C. Decker Inc, 1988, p.2]


3.
"Embryo: the developing organism from the time of fertilization until significant differentiation has occurred, when the organism becomes known as a fetus."
[Cloning Human Beings. Report and Recommendations of the National Bioethics Advisory Commission. Rockville, MD: GPO, 1997, Appendix-2.]

4.
"Embryo: An organism in the earliest stage of development; in a man, from the time of conception to the end of the second month in the uterus."
[Dox, Ida G. et al. The Harper Collins Illustrated Medical Dictionary. New York: Harper Perennial, 1993, p. 146]


5
"Embryo: The early developing fertilized egg that is growing into another individual of the species. In man the term 'embryo' is usually restricted to the period of development from fertilization until the end of the eighth week of pregnancy."
[Walters, William and Singer, Peter (eds.). Test-Tube Babies. Melbourne: Oxford University Press, 1982, p. 160]

6.
"The development of a human being begins with fertilization, a process by which two highly specialized cells, the spermatozoon from the male and the oocyte from the female, unite to give rise to a new organism, the zygote."
[Langman, Jan. Medical Embryology. 3rd edition. Baltimore: Williams and Wilkins, 1975, p. 3]

7.
"Embryo: The developing individual between the union of the germ cells and the completion of the organs which characterize its body when it becomes a separate organism.... At the moment the sperm cell of the human male meets the ovum of the female and the union results in a fertilized ovum (zygote), a new life has begun.... The term embryo covers the several stages of early development from conception to the ninth or tenth week of life."
[Considine, Douglas (ed.). Van Nostrand's Scientific Encyclopedia. 5th edition. New York: Van Nostrand Reinhold Company, 1976, p. 943]

8.
"The question came up of what is an embryo, when does an embryo exist, when does it occur. I think, as you know, that in development, life is a continuum.... But I think one of the useful definitions that has come out, especially from Germany, has been the stage at which these two nuclei [from sperm and egg] come together and the membranes between the two break down."
[Jonathan Van Blerkom of University of Colorado, expert witness on human embryology before the NIH Human Embryo Research Panel -- Panel Transcript, February 2, 1994, p. 63]

9.
"Zygote. This cell, formed by the union of an ovum and a sperm (Gr. zyg tos, yoked together), represents the beginning of a human being. The common expression 'fertilized ovum' refers to the zygote."
[Moore, Keith L. and Persaud, T.V.N. Before We Are Born: Essentials of Embryology and Birth Defects. 4th edition. Philadelphia: W.B. Saunders Company, 1993, p. 1]

10.
"The chromosomes of the oocyte and sperm are...respectively enclosed within female and male pronuclei. These pronuclei fuse with each other to produce the single, diploid, 2N nucleus of the fertilized zygote. This moment of zygote formation may be taken as the beginning or zero time point of embryonic development."
[Larsen, William J. Human Embryology. 2nd edition. New York: Churchill Livingstone, 1997, p. 17]

11.
"Although life is a continuous process, fertilization is a critical landmark because, under ordinary circumstances, a new, genetically distinct human organism is thereby formed.... The combination of 23 chromosomes present in each pronucleus results in 46 chromosomes in the zygote. Thus the diploid number is restored and the embryonic genome is formed. The embryo now exists as a genetic unity."
[O'Rahilly, Ronan and Muller, Fabiola. Human Embryology & Teratology. 2nd edition. New York: Wiley-Liss, 1996, pp. 8, 29. This textbook lists "pre-embryo" among "discarded and replaced terms" in modern embryology, describing it as "ill-defined and inaccurate" (p. 12}]

12.
"Almost all higher animals start their lives from a single cell, the fertilized ovum (zygote)... The time of fertilization represents the starting point in the life history, or ontogeny, of the individual."
[Carlson, Bruce M. Patten's Foundations of Embryology. 6th edition. New York: McGraw-Hill, 1996, p. 3]



Sorry lightweight, now you can go away attack religion on another places, but dont ever again use a word science as your argument, since everything you say is on contrary to science.

Написано от Croat, 12.04.2016 at 04:17

words

We all know what a fucking embryo/fetus is... we used to be one.

You never answered my question.

Do you remember being born?

Написано от Phoenix, 12.04.2016 at 04:35

We all know what a fucking embryo/fetus is... we used to be one.
You never answered my question.
Do you remember being born?

If I quoted Khal, that means I am reffering my arguments to him who claims embrio is stll not an organism.

No, I don't remember being born as I don't remember what I've had for lunch at 27th of May 2014.

Написано от Croat, 12.04.2016 at 04:50

Написано от Phoenix, 12.04.2016 at 04:35

We all know what a fucking embryo/fetus is... we used to be one.
You never answered my question.
Do you remember being born?

If I quoted Khal, that means I am reffering my arguments to him who claims embrio is stll not an organism.

No, I don't remember being born as I don't remember what I've had for lunch at 27th of May 2014.

Well I'm sorry but you post in a public forum, expect the public to reply. You started this fucking thread, so you can answer for it!

Unlike you, some people can remember what they had for lunch on the 27th May 2014, it's a special condition called Hyperthymesia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperthymesia

But even these people cannot remember being born. Memory is attributed to a part of the brain called the "Hippocampus" which is not fully developed until the age of about 3 years old.

A fetus' brain is not fully developed. Its like a fish, It cannot feel pain, it can't sense anything, it can't be considered "alive". That is why most civilised countries don't allow abortion after 22 weeks of pregnancy, because after this point it can be considered alive....

Again, having an abortion is nowhere near as brutal as killing an animal for it's meat, but you still eat steak and bacon and eggs, so shut the fuck up about stuff you know nothing about.

I think everyone should be allowed to do it. Would I judge you if you did it? Yep. There are so many contraceptive measures available that if you get pregnant and can't afford the baby or don't want the baby, then you could have prevented this situation form happening. And you can always give up the baby for adoption. Now I am against banning it because I don't believe the government should have the power to determine what procedures a person can get.

Написано от Dereny, 12.04.2016 at 05:23

I think everyone should be allowed to do it. Would I judge you if you did it? Yep. There are so many contraceptive measures available that if you get pregnant and can't afford the baby or don't want the baby, then you could have prevented this situation form happening. And you can always give up the baby for adoption. Now I am against banning it because I don't believe the government should have the power to determine what procedures a person can get.

My mum was on the pill when I was conceived, no form of contraception is 100% effective. Abortion is like a last resort for people that arent't ready, and women that get raped don't exactly have time to stop their attacker and take their pill...

Написано от Phoenix, 12.04.2016 at 05:19

Написано от Croat, 12.04.2016 at 04:50

Написано от Phoenix, 12.04.2016 at 04:35

We all know what a fucking embryo/fetus is... we used to be one.
You never answered my question.
Do you remember being born?

If I quoted Khal, that means I am reffering my arguments to him who claims embrio is stll not an organism.

No, I don't remember being born as I don't remember what I've had for lunch at 27th of May 2014.

Again, having an abortion is nowhere near as brutal as killing an animal for it's meat, but you still eat steak and bacon and eggs, so shut the fuck up about stuff you know nothing about.

well strictly speaking the eggs you buy are unfertilized food stuffs that have no chance of becoming a chick so eating eggs is totally fine, for future reference an egg is actually a hens period.
Also as is the way with most farming methods ,large or small scale, the older animals are always taken first to the slaughter, < unless a certian situation arises after birth that wouldn't make is feasible to keep the animal, > to keep the younger animals alive and the herd stays healthier.
Your view just tells us that your willingness to kill children is needlessly cruel and kinda weird and the fact that you would kill things that can't protect themselves is sorta cowardly as well, and to say that its perfectly ok when in fact even a farm animal is treated with more respect than what you'd show your own species is sick. they are at least allowed to live for a couple years for themselves.
Also in my experience farmers who are responsible for sending animals to die actually have a greater respect for life as a whole because of it.

Написано от Netre, 12.04.2016 at 05:35

Написано от Phoenix, 12.04.2016 at 05:19

Написано от Croat, 12.04.2016 at 04:50

Написано от Phoenix, 12.04.2016 at 04:35

We all know what a fucking embryo/fetus is... we used to be one.
You never answered my question.
Do you remember being born?

If I quoted Khal, that means I am reffering my arguments to him who claims embrio is stll not an organism.

No, I don't remember being born as I don't remember what I've had for lunch at 27th of May 2014.

Again, having an abortion is nowhere near as brutal as killing an animal for it's meat, but you still eat steak and bacon and eggs, so shut the fuck up about stuff you know nothing about.

well strictly speaking the eggs you buy are unfertilized food stuffs that have no chance of becoming a chick so eating eggs is totally fine, for future reference an egg is actually a hens period.
Also as is the way with most farming methods ,large or small scale, the older animals are always taken first to the slaughter, < unless a certian situation arises after birth that wouldn't make is feasible to keep the animal, > to keep the younger animals alive and the herd stays healthier.
Your view just tells us that your willingness to kill children is needlessly cruel and kinda weird and the fact that you would kill things that can't protect themselves is sorta cowardly as well, and to say that its perfectly ok when in fact even a farm animal is treated with more respect than what you'd show your own species is sick. they are at least allowed to live for a couple years for themselves.
Also in my experience farmers who are responsible for sending animals to die actually have a greater respect for life as a whole because of it.

One of the negative side effects from the egg industry

"The fact that you would kill things that can't protect themselves is sorta cowardly as well"

The oldest animals are killed first huh? Where did you get that bullshit from? Do you even know what a lamb is?


You're stretching the definition of "children"byond breaking point, a child can communicate and think.... a fetus can't thats why one is called a fucking fetus and the other a child.... moron.

I never said abortion was okay, it's a necessary last resort, and there are more important things for you "soft souls" to worry about.

Edit: I wondered why i had you on ignore, and then you gave me a whole new reason to. so don't waste your time replying

Написано от Darkmace, 12.04.2016 at 06:01

NEXT TOPIC:
Is masturbation wrong?
Every day males are releasing billions of HUMAN sperm cells into the Universe, and they are never to be used. I think there should be no masturbation as sperm is a LIVING ORGANISIM that can move. We are killing Humans EVERY SINGLE DAY. we are so cruel. This is completely wrong, any of you against this need to read the bible. It clearly states all life is important. I request all of you, including Zenith our very big Jesus fan boy - PLEASE STOP MASTURBATING.

This is the best response to all the bullshit arguments about fetus' being "children".

And there's no fucking way the likes of Croat and Netropoli don't spend half their day jacking off.

Написано от Tundy, 11.04.2016 at 21:47

Написано от Zenith, 11.04.2016 at 21:42

Написано от Tundy, 11.04.2016 at 21:39

Написано от Zenith, 11.04.2016 at 18:51

A happily married women for 10 years gets brutally raped in the streets. She is now impregnated with a child (which she learns about the very next day). And let's say she is in the financial position to raise a kid, so she keeps it.
Two years pass, the woman's husband is dead, the woman is in complete poverty, and can barely provide for herself. To avoid the responsibility of caring for her child, she kills him. She is discovered killing the child, and charged with murder.

So its murder after two years but not two years earlier?

What if you were that unborn baby due to rape, would you want your mother to kill you?
Knowing you, I bet you be like: "Kill me, I don't wanna live in poverty."

Honestly, that's basically suicide.

The rapist doesn't deserve to have his gens in the gen-pool. Unwanted pregnancies can be prevented and the mother bears responsibility for them, Rapes can't be prevented and the mother is not at fault.

Still murder, you are taking a live, no matter how it came into the world.
Look I said I'm done here. Stop quoting me people.

I said stop quoting me, but since you used scripture in the wrong way, I intend to make another point because I hate to see the Bible misused.

First off, the context of the first passage Deuteronomy 22:25-27 is God giving Moses the law. At this point in time God has reached the point of rape and begins to discuss it. He tells Moses that if a damsel is raped by a man not her husband, the woman is not to be punished.

HOWEVER, and this is where you messed up. The Bible does not say anything in that passage on abortion, thus making the passage inapplicable to this issue. The Bible simply states that the rapist will be punished and the woman will be free.
Since this passage is therefore useless to your case as it does not apply to the matter at hand, I will move to the next passage.

I am struggling to understand why you brought this second passage up, as it has nothing to do with abortion either. I will look at the context of the verse and try and figure out how you relate this to abortion.

Again God is speaking to Moses, this time two chapters after Moses has stopped yet another rebellion by the children of Israel. The two tablets of stone which Moses used to write down the commandments were broken and had to be rewritten. So we come to your verse which you so readily supplied us with and we see God telling Moses of His grace and mercy. God concludes this statement stating that he will not forgive the guilty, and will pass the iniquity upon the children.

What I think you might be saying here is, if a child is born from rape, he is then going to have the iniquity of his father on him. You have to remember, God is giving this to the children of Israel as the law. The law no longer applies to us today but is merely good principles to live by.

So neither of your verses apply here. Please study them out before making yourself look silly.

Написано от Darkmace, 12.04.2016 at 06:01

NEXT TOPIC:
Is masturbation wrong?
Every day males are releasing billions of HUMAN sperm cells into the Universe, and they are never to be used. I think there should be no masturbation as sperm is a LIVING ORGANISIM that can move. We are killing Humans EVERY SINGLE DAY. we are so cruel. This is completely wrong, any of you against this need to read the bible. It clearly states all life is important. I request all of you, including Zenith our very big Jesus fan boy - PLEASE STOP MASTURBATING.

LOL Yet another place where you can't win an argument so you turn to insults like "big Jesus fan boy"
I do not masturbate at all. I find it gross and unnecessary. So stop the insults. Not once have I insulted you for your beliefs, and I argued strictly from fact.

Написано от Darkmace, 12.04.2016 at 05:55

Написано от Skanderbeg, 12.04.2016 at 04:13

Написано от Darkmace, 11.04.2016 at 18:16

We later learn 1 month later that a family of 12 is found dead due to starvation.

Only regions where people can starve is Africa and Middle East for now. So let's not exaggerate.

Of course, and African people don't get pregnant because you said so?

funny, because in Africa you would get butchered for murdering unborn children.

Написано от Phoenix, 12.04.2016 at 05:54

Написано от Netre, 12.04.2016 at 05:35

Написано от Phoenix, 12.04.2016 at 05:19

Написано от Croat, 12.04.2016 at 04:50

Написано от Phoenix, 12.04.2016 at 04:35

We all know what a fucking embryo/fetus is... we used to be one.
You never answered my question.
Do you remember being born?

If I quoted Khal, that means I am reffering my arguments to him who claims embrio is stll not an organism.

No, I don't remember being born as I don't remember what I've had for lunch at 27th of May 2014.

well strictly speaking the eggs you buy are unfertilized food stuffs that have no chance of becoming a chick so eating eggs is totally fine, for future reference an egg is actually a hens period.
Also as is the way with most farming methods ,large or small scale, the older animals are always taken first to the slaughter,
Also in my experience farmers who are responsible for sending animals to die actually have a greater respect for life as a whole because of it.

One of the negative side effects from the egg industry
"The fact that you would kill things that can't protect themselves is sorta cowardly as well"
The oldest animals are killed first huh? Where did you get that bullshit from? Do you even know what a lamb is?

You're stretching the definition of "children"byond breaking point, a child can communicate and think.... a fetus can't thats why one is called a fucking fetus and the other a child.... moron.

I never said abortion was okay, it's a necessary last resort, and there are more important things for you "soft souls" to worry about.

Edit: I wondered why i had you on ignore, and then you gave me a whole new reason to. so don't waste your time replying

i'll reply for the benefit of those you would be misleading.

firstly shock factor videos have no place in this, the world is full of shit. and guess what its still sick to do that but thats the sickness innate in human society today, however this thread is not about other animals this is about aborting/killing a child belonging to your own species. If you want you can make your own thread about animals and i'll go there to see what people think. lets not play games though and act like there arent children in africa being butchered but at least they had more of a chance than an unborn.

Now you also went and found these informative videos for us to show us the horror of corporate farming techniques and you call out the horrors of it, but instead of trying to do something to protect human life from going through the same fate you just say that its ok because some people kill lambs or chicks after they have been born. these are not the practices of every farmer though < hard pressed to call that farming, or those people farmers> this is the practice of another sicko company trying to make money out of the beloved unimpeded capitalist society.
if you really were against death of younger generation of animals you would be arguing against abortion in humans as a de facto stepping stone to prevent unjust death un newborns/unborn. as your argument stands however your simply trying to justify a willingness to kill while trying to gain some misplaced moral high ground by saying humans kill animals. Your simply trying to shock me into backing down without supplying any valid data as to how killing an unborn human is justifiable.

Sure yea its terrible what happens in these video's but guess what that shit does already happen to humans in underdeveloped countries and its only allowed happen to animals the same way because some governments are badly organized or they simply allow this kind of thing to happen. Its legal and if you actually wanted it to stop instead of using it as a distraction in these kind of arguements you could be spending your time writing to your local government rep or your local animal and farm health and safety rep to have these practices prevented.

also older lambs are killed first, but a hefty amount of them are kept as well. lamb is for a certain pallet not mine but for some, there is also an industry for it which means larger scale corporations style "Farms" if you could call them that emerge to take that industry in. However its a long push to call these people farmers. also depending on where you live in the world farm ethics and cleanliness is either more or less of an issue depending on where you are.
you also have to wait for those lambs to reach a certain weight which takes a number of months to accomplish. a number of months more than you were willing to give one of your own.
{EDIT} i might also have to add this, the lambs which reach weight fast enough are the oldest. just in case that isn't obvious.
To be fair though ive an unfair advantage in this field cause i work on farms.
IF you are so against the way in which that producer operates buy your own hens and work them yourself, every little helps and if you actually cared i'm sure that's not too big a step for you.

also the threat to mute me for having an opinion is a very feminazi attitude to take into a debate. it is nice to know that you would rather ignore me than try to beat me with logical reasoning.
and how did you so lovingly put it too ACE, "so shut the fuck up about stuff you know nothing about."

Написано от Darkmace, 12.04.2016 at 06:01

NEXT TOPIC:
Is masturbation wrong?
Every day males are releasing billions of HUMAN sperm cells into the Universe, and they are never to be used. I think there should be no masturbation as sperm is a LIVING ORGANISIM that can move. We are killing Humans EVERY SINGLE DAY. we are so cruel. This is completely wrong, any of you against this need to read the bible. It clearly states all life is important. I request all of you, including Zenith our very big Jesus fan boy - PLEASE STOP MASTURBATING.

Sperms by themselves don't produce humans, you moron.

Написано от Phoenix, 12.04.2016 at 05:19

A fetus' brain is not fully developed. Its like a fish, It cannot feel pain, it can't sense anything, it can't be considered "alive". That is why most civilised countries don't allow abortion after 22 weeks of pregnancy, because after this point it can be considered alive....

Wait, it can't be considered as 'alive' just because his brain is not fully developed? or because it doesn't feel pain before 22nd week of it's evolution?
So, by your logic, feeling pain is a base which allows you to stop it's natural evolution?

Just take a dose of anesthesia and kill yourself, your brain isn't developed enough to live on this world, plus you won't feel the pain of death.

Написано от Phoenix, 12.04.2016 at 05:19

Again, having an abortion is nowhere near as brutal as killing an animal for it's meat, but you still eat steak and bacon and eggs, so shut the fuck up about stuff you know nothing about.

Hahaha, did you just compare abortion with killing animals for food? Did you just compare it?

Написано от Phoenix, 12.04.2016 at 06:13

Написано от Darkmace, 12.04.2016 at 06:01

NEXT TOPIC:
Is masturbation wrong?
Every day males are releasing billions of HUMAN sperm cells into the Universe, and they are never to be used. I think there should be no masturbation as sperm is a LIVING ORGANISIM that can move. We are killing Humans EVERY SINGLE DAY. we are so cruel. This is completely wrong, any of you against this need to read the bible. It clearly states all life is important. I request all of you, including Zenith our very big Jesus fan boy - PLEASE STOP MASTURBATING.

This is the best response to all the bullshit arguments about fetus' being "children".

So, definition of how human being is created by conception when man's gametes (sperm cells) unit with women's (feminine egg) is bullshit arguement,
but hell yeah, let's give the best response to it by theory how sperms are living organisms which are killed by men's masturbating each day....
Are you even 1% aware of your stupidity?

Sperms are not living organisms and you obviosly don't know that in one ejaculation can be about 500 000 000 indivirual sperm cells and only one (in most cases) will fertilize the female sex cell.
So, if we will accord to your dumb logic, that means people shouldn't reproduce because each man who make a baby to a woman is actually a serial killer who killed 499 999 999 'living organisms' called sperm cells, just to give a birth to the only one sperm cell........ Oh, you fucking dumbo, why I am even losing my time to quote your sillyness which is on maximum

Написано от Croat, 12.04.2016 at 07:36

Написано от Phoenix, 12.04.2016 at 06:13

Написано от Darkmace, 12.04.2016 at 06:01

NEXT TOPIC:
Is masturbation wrong?
Every day males are releasing billions of HUMAN sperm cells into the Universe, and they are never to be used. I think there should be no masturbation as sperm is a LIVING ORGANISIM that can move. We are killing Humans EVERY SINGLE DAY. we are so cruel. This is completely wrong, any of you against this need to read the bible. It clearly states all life is important. I request all of you, including Zenith our very big Jesus fan boy - PLEASE STOP MASTURBATING.

This is the best response to all the bullshit arguments about fetus' being "children".

So, definition of how human being is created by conception when man's gametes (sperm cells) unit with women's (feminine egg) is bullshit arguement,
but hell yeah, let's give the best response to it by theory how sperms are living organisms which are killed by men's masturbating each day....
Are you even 1% aware of your stupidity?

Sperms are not living organisms and you obviosly don't know that in one ejaculation can be about 500 000 000 indivirual sperm cells and only one (in most cases) will fertilize the female sex cell.
So, if we will accord to your dumb logic, that means people shouldn't reproduce because each man who make a baby to a woman is actually a serial killer who killed 499 999 999 'living organisms' called sperm cells, just to give a birth to the only one sperm cell........ Oh, you fucking dumbo, why I am even losing my time to quote your sillyness which is on maximum

I'm done with you

Написано от Phoenix, 12.04.2016 at 07:41

Написано от Croat, 12.04.2016 at 07:36

Написано от Phoenix, 12.04.2016 at 06:13

Написано от Darkmace, 12.04.2016 at 06:01

NEXT TOPIC:

I'm done with you

There seems to be a trend building up here. might it have something to do with losing an argument by any chance. hmmm i wonder.

In my opinion it looks like the pro-life people won this argument, any baby killers wanna make another point?

Написано от Phoenix, 12.04.2016 at 04:15

Do you like bacon?

I don't find the fetuses = animals argument convincing so lets not go down that road.