Thank you Amok & Ivan (And Sun Tzu)

Написано от Dave, 13.04.2025 at 18:57

Agree to disagree. And anyway I'm very close to doing another wave of deletions, and if I do it will be much bigger than 2021 was. I have studied the numbers (I'm a data guy after all) and mathematically it's a very small percentage (<1%) of active atWar players who cause 99% of the drama and problems. I would very much like to weed them out once and for all.

The 1% (I'll call them this for ease of argument, not to inflate their egos any further) like to think they are the only active players on atWar. They are almost all comp players. They almost completely ignore all other communities and types of atWar players. There are a ton of casual players, for example, who have always been there playing the game quietly and not causing drama. Deleting the 1% won't hurt us at all in the other communities, and it would benefit us in other ways. For example there is a steady stream of new players all the time who COULD be nurtured and mentored, rather than stomped on by the 1%. I've been talking about this and the retention problem in general for a long time, but nobody in the 1% seemed to listen. For them, if there isn't a CW going on at any given moment, then the "game is dead" and there's absolutely nothing else here of value. It's a very narrow view of atWar.

I would be totally fine with deleting the entire comp community, maybe even removing CWs and Duels as options. At one time I did invest a bunch of time trying to make them happy, to no avail. Now I've concluded that whole area is nothing but trouble. I really am fine with the idea of atWar being forums with a casual game attached to it.

I'm sorry to say this, but you don't know your community at all. Since when do sirivann, Grand Inquisitor, woojoo and many more come from the competitive scene? There are many other people from different communities who have posted messages here.

Meh you guys are all delusional, I can speak for myself, I only stayed because of persistence and atWar's uniqueness and I like maps, especially the custom scenarios, if I wasn't persistent I would've left after rank 6, since the community definitely is a problem and it is also a reason I hesitate to recommend atWar from other turn based browser games (which I won't even mention so they don't get brigaded/hacked/DDoSed, lol, that's how bad atWar "community" is)
I maybe got a few people make a new account or guest account here but I'm sure most of them didn't stick around.
It is also a large reason I take big breaks, there's just "greener pastures" than here, even if not having exactly the same mechanics.

1 slight criticism I might have is in the future direction, either make this entirely "family-friendly", or not, and also a complete theme makeover and relatively cheap promotional campaigns can be done over the internet.
Adding AI (at least rules based AI) and quality of life features such as rally points alongside the existing auto recruit, would come a long way.

Maybe also a map editor overhaul, to make it less hard to make maps, with a GUI integrated scripting system? Nowadays it isn't too hard to accomplish such.

Funny to read how the owner doesnt care at all. First 4nic got banned for 7 days, that destroyed 1 casual scenario, then boywind got banned, remake of the last casual scen destroyed, for a stupid sentence.

Been here for 12 years, half of my friends got banned other half quit forever cuz there friends got banned for a stupid reason. Never even tried to talk to mods or owner cuz It clearly doesnt lead anywhere.

Every month there is a New bug that makes playing worse, but when clovis needs a turn reset, thats then prio number 1.

цитирам:

So if you're going to refer to any criminal laws, either do it right or don't forget to mention that you're referring to the criminal law systems of dictatorial regimes, because according to your own words, you clearly don't believe in any democratic values in this game.

> Forms mobs that chases away new players
> Complains about democratic values not being upheld
Me: ?

WE WANT JUSTICE, WE WANT JUSTICE, WE WANT REVENGE, WE WANT PEACE, WE WANT JUSTICE, WE WANT JUSTICE, UNBAN MY FRIENDS, WE WANT JUSTICE, WE WANT JUSTICE

UNBAN BOYSMITH JONES, WE WANT JUSTICE, WE WANT JUSTICE

цитирам:

Why not go play Minecraft or Animal Crossing or Roblox or something else that is more social friendly then?

Lol as I already said, there's already other turn based multiplayer strategy games and people behave like actual humans, atWar being a war game doesn't mean people have to hate eachother's souls or something like that, not even in real life war has it usually been like that, prime example after the US civil war ended, the then general Ulysses Grant treated Robert Lee with respect.

цитирам:

And of course, there is this type of toxic people, who were always toxic and never got banned, simply because they were good with the owner (prime example is Croat). I'm not sure if there is any point to talk fairness in this game anymore.

I don't know about Croat "toxicity", which says a lot, it means he doesn't display himself in public like that a lot, and thus doesn't scare off the newer people coming in.

Waffel is paranoid and excessive but truly Dave, it's Time to make things right

Either delete this thread and go on with your deletion plan or unban all (the game would bé much better off)

I thought boywind got banned for 7 days, but he got perma banned. Are you guys for real right now?

Banned players are a problem and all, but what about this. We tried to play NEU yesterday, an 11-players quick game scenario. Then, this happened:



And the WW1 game failed cuz trolling, too. We may be able to fill games regardless of a few banned players, but we can't stop trolls/leavers from ruining some of them...

---

P.S: bonus meme


P.S #2: as a random casual player said a few days ago:

цитирам:

Do you guys use atWar forums? lol.
And I thought I had free time

Imagine if you had 30 players instead of 11, maybe you could fill the lobby with trusted players as we always did. I must be briliant to come up with this. Lol

Soo you saying hosting one - 11 player scen on sunday evening is a great succes?

Why is clovis creating a strawman, then attacking the said strawman and not addressing the post at hand? Is he mentally sound as a person at this point? too much slurpy?

Hi Clovis1122, even tho we texted sometimes back then, I can't really say that i know you for good, so i don't know if you posted this to troll and make fun of (me? or guys who try to act in the interest of the game and the players?), or if you posted this believing it was a reasonable thing to do and believing that what you wrote is a good point (I find hard to believe this second one is the case, but I've been told that apperently it usually is).
But, wheter the case is, I want to thank you for it, since your post made me come back here in this long thread to portray the situation of the game to everyone, including those who are to busy in real life and have not been around theese past times.

1
The activity of the game is today at his minimum since i joined atwar (april 2020). This is not an opinion, this is an undeniable fact, even the game owner cant negate it (he is indeed arguing that the decrease of the activity has just followed his natural course that already begun back then and that was not influenced by banning the players that contributed keeping high standars in the skill and the gameplay; even if this is in my opinion logically wrong, it is impossible to prove it with mere numbers). The activity decreased by number of active players (in the rapid rooms, in the casual rooms, espetially the newbie one, and of course in the coalition war rooms, and in the active players in the server in total), aswell as in the numbers of duels and wars played (wich, for Dave and for you, are totally irrelevant apperently), and also in the numbers of scenarios played and hosted (including the decrease in the quality of those, since they commonly have some requirement to be played properly). Once again those are not opinions, theese are things we saw with our eyes. You can ask to the people that were active in the game, not just me but everyone from many different backgrounds and different parts of the community (not just the competitive that you guys seems to hate): Palm, Tungston, Alpen, Metyu, Dominicano, IHY, Ted, Khauman, Hineni, Swenden, wojoo, Barstool, Spartans300, pvppro, Smugler, Estus, ulvi, fosforat, Puma, Tiger, Stopmonkey, Alfa159, CroatiaSoccer, and others i am forgetting to mention right now. They will all tell you the same thing, because they have been HERE trying to play the game (in the many ways it can be explored), while you have been busy or hidden waiting for some moment like yesterday to do your deed...

2
Yesterday events are proof to a couple of things. One being the impressive selfishness from a great portion of scenario players and their inability to be nice to other people and to each other. The second is what have been said by me and others, and confirmed by comments i can't see anymore, probably removed: the fact that no matter how many people you will bann, toxic people will always be around, and if bullying other players like you did yesterday, preventing them from learning anything and just making fun of them is not toxic enough for you, then I very much question your ability to draw the "line" that has been referred to about the toxic matter.
For those who were not here I will briefly give some context of what happened.
You and other scenario players that have been in hybernation for years (in the rapid games lobby apart from random and troll games, because i can already hear you typing "wdym i play some casual stuff" or "hey I just played that 50k world game with 3 people last week"), all came togheter to play one ww2 game (NEU), probably scheduled from the discord of scenario people that i left years ago exactly because of the trollness I spoke above^^ And in this game you people picked all accordingly the same faction leaving every other people on purpose picks from the other faction, unfortunatly the game started without me realizing what was happening (I was almost ending an other game, as GIGI said i should have left that turn 1 not turn 7). When it became obvious the tiring outcome that would have been imposed to players like Estus or Alfa or Natka i left the game taking responsability for it to end (I was of course not the victim, I tried to save the victims from your bullying fun and humiliation).

3
This kind of toxic little games have always happened wheter Dave have seen them or not, but as Grand Inquisitor said, if you have more players, if you have a decently active community, you will also manage to host and play games that make sense, that are actually good, nice, and fun (for everyone in them).
In fact, speaking of scenario rapid games (since you are hostiles to the competitive part of the game), there are really few people left, to the point that is daily impossible to host a scenario that takes more then 4 people (and I am speaking about peak times like weekend evening), and I must thank those few that are still around (like Barstool, Metyu or Alfa, a new guy that, despite the infintite list of problems of this dying game, is still heroicly trying to fit in and learn stuff), if that little westfront of 4 people sometimes start.

4
This last point is more of a personal one. For the whole time I've been in this game.
You have no fucking idea about the energy I have always put in trying to host scenario games, and make them balanced and fun for everyone. Every time when there has been a small light of chance of starting those ww1 or neu or ostfront or simplified ww2, I've always tried to reach everyone (espetially when I still was in the discord server) and help the hosts of the games sharing link where it was possible and profitable, and always sending private messages to everyone to arrange balanced teams and explaining (lowranks espetially) the need and the benefit of switching (not to mention the coaching to the lowranks aswell). I've always tried to reach everyone and make the best for everyone INCLUDING you or siri or others. Pointless to say that I will no longer waste my time with you hopeless people. As i said in he beginning I've never known you for good, I am certainly not interested in doing it now.

I really pray that the game as a whole is not hopeless aswell, but owner ignoring feedbacks suggest otherwise. I still don't understand what is the danger in unbanning people that are not hackers, without making them moderators or vice-president-whatever. I don't understand it because in 7 pages of thread it has not been said once. It has been said that low activity is better then bad activity (where I agree), but it hasnt been written what is exaclty this "bad". Is it farming or unsposrtmanship? We had it, we will always have it. Is it toxicity? Well, read above Dave, you will never get rid of that, unless you bann everyone that speaks, including and espetially your subordinates.

Написано от Lev Davidovic, 14.04.2025 at 11:24

Hi Clovis1122, even tho we texted sometimes back then, I can't really say that i know you for good, so i don't know if you posted this to troll and make fun of (me? or guys who try to act in the interest of the game and the players?), or if you posted this believing it was a reasonable thing to do and believing that what you wrote is a good point (I find hard to believe this second one is the case, but I've been told that apperently it usually is).

Hi Lev,

Yes, leavers are a real, unaddressed problem. The last time I played a quick NEU game was 5 months ago (not "years", check my profile). I got the ping from siri & sirPig on discord and joined this game looking to chill and have fun. Regardless of your reasons to leave, you ruined the game for all of us. This highlights two things:

1. We can still fill quick games.
2. Leavers are still a problem.

If we want more games playing quick games on the main lobby, do not focus on banned troublemakers. Old players will leave the game eventually so there's no point in keeping them longer.

Instead, focus on new, beginner players that will replace them. By getting rid of toxicity and dealing with leavers, they will be more likely to stay around for longer.

---

Regarding the other points, unfortunately, most of us are already radicalized and unlikely to change our views. There's no convincing, so I won't bother.

Good luck living in The Matrix.

Shut up waffel shut up dave shut up

"1. We can still fill quick games.
2. Leavers are still a problem.

If we want more games playing quick games on the main lobby, do not focus on banned troublemakers. Old players will leave the game eventually so there's no point in keeping them longer.

Instead, focus on new, beginner players that will replace them. By getting rid of toxicity and dealing with leavers, they will be more likely to stay around for longer." this shows how little you play this game you log on during peak activity and after one game say you can still fill games. Literally everyday for the past week there was so little players in the room you couldn't get anyone to a game. leavers is not that big of a problem you could always remake if there was enough online to get one. Idk I've never asked any brand new players why they quit buuttt, I'll bet theyd say " man it was all of those toxic and players that leave games" or would they say " I could not get a game with anyone for a couple weeks." All I'll say is you'd probably get more players to stick if you unbanned the "toxic" guys who opposed Dave, because they'd actually be able to get a game quick and there would be more players to help them improve.

Написано от clovis1122, 14.04.2025 at 13:11

This data is absolute garbage clovis and you look like a clown posting it. Relevant data would be something like total games played in main lobby, not a compilation of, the clicks of alts, forum visits, bots and passthrough user traffic.

To even claim this game is at the same level of "user activity" as it was at ANY point in 2021 is completely absurd and you should be embarrassed trying to shill it. In late 2021 we were still having somewhat talented stacked clan war and duel seasons. Obviously the covid level of activity would return to the mean, sooner or later, but it was much higher than it was now. If you want to claim that the banning of players didn't impact game activity, find better data.

Написано от clovis1122, 14.04.2025 at 13:11

Instead, focus on new, beginner players that will replace them. By getting rid of toxicity and dealing with leavers, they will be more likely to stay around for longer.

Lets start with you?

It's a interesting to me... Because you were one of the original elite players and took an extended leave of absence, many mid generation players 2014-2018 viewed you as some sort of "atwar legend". You were good at the time before you quit, and before the froyers and 4nics of the late decade came along. Anyways, older players often warned how you were a resentful, toxic, obnoxious freak, but it never really held water because you were away for so long. Alas you come back, had a resentful, slave, freak moment by demoting lao, disappeared for awhile and returned to speed run your reputation destruction even further. It's frankly gross and inhuman. The mystique of the tournament winner, high elo, epic clan leader is gone and a hollow shell of a cultural marxist remains. Lao was always right, you're always on the wrong side of everything.

Galerius=kaska

Personally, I blame Skitz. He's the one who created the "sell your game greedy Ivan and lazy Amok" thread. And I am suddenly picking the same vibes.

Shame on you Skitz.

Написано от 77TENGRI99, 14.04.2025 at 23:34

Galerius=kaska

Blocked tengri, best décision ever

(Edit : tengri stop pming thru alts you scumbag)

Thank you Waffel for this post, its been a fun read honestly. Gave me a reason to log in daily just to see how this will unravel.
Back in 2021, as far as I remember, most of the permabans were discussed in the discord between Dave and us mods before any action was taken, and I myself supported most of them (such as Bugs and Lion), and I don't think those people should return. The only person I strongly objected, and still do (Dave remembers, we spent a few hours discussing it) was banning Lao, who for me is in the top 3/5 most respectful and skill-wise players this game has seen. I really don't know/remember how they managed to piss off each other so much, but it was an isolated incident.
But I agree with Waffel, 3/4 years has passed since the whole "dropping the hammer" scenario has happened, and I an 99% sure that not all the players who were deleted/permabanned back then do not deserve to come back.
So instead of dragging this topic further, maybe we should make a list of all the players who were deleted/permabanned and want to come back, and we review their cases in the staff discord channel.
@Dave I am sure we can manage that. As I can see, you yourself don't remember all the bans (like Waffel), and I am sure there are a couple of more.
In case of Waffel, I honestly don't see how he could drive new players away from this game. He is usually just an annoyance, but only to the people he knows. I don't see a scenario where he comes up to a beginner and starts spamming him, nor is he the one to post vulgar things in room/global channels.

Написано от Eagle, 15.04.2025 at 02:33

Most of the permabans were discussed in the discord between Dave and us mods before any action was taken, and I myself supported most of them (such as Bugs and Lion), and I don't think those people should return. The only person I strongly objected, and still do (Dave remembers, we spent a few hours discussing it) was banning Lao, who for me is in the top 3/5 most respectful and skill-wise players.
instead of dragging this topic further, maybe we should make a list of all the players who were deleted/permabanned and want to come back, and we review their cases in the staff discord channel.
@Dave I am sure we can manage that. As I can see, you yourself don't remember all the bans.

Well said. This topic needs to die an appropriate death. It's sadistic at this point.

Написано от Phoenix, 15.04.2025 at 07:58

Написано от Eagle, 15.04.2025 at 02:33

Most of the permabans were discussed in the discord between Dave and us mods before any action was taken, and I myself supported most of them (such as Bugs and Lion), and I don't think those people should return. The only person I strongly objected, and still do (Dave remembers, we spent a few hours discussing it) was banning Lao, who for me is in the top 3/5 most respectful and skill-wise players.
instead of dragging this topic further, maybe we should make a list of all the players who were deleted/permabanned and want to come back, and we review their cases in the staff discord channel.
@Dave I am sure we can manage that. As I can see, you yourself don't remember all the bans.

Well said. This topic needs to die an appropriate death. It's sadistic at this point.

Dave hasn't been cooperative at all with anyone here. On the contrary this thread needs more time to unfold.

Even if the thread is closed , I will open a new one when my casual games end , then I will say my piece.