World War III, Arabic spring and stuff

Написано от Tik-Tok, 05.08.2011 at 08:34

>Does't make it a good place to live

So constant war between tribes is good is it? One of the richest countries in Africa?

>Gaddafi had a knee-jerk reaction and, as soon as hints of a rebellion started

And where did this hint come from? When did hundreds of thousands of Libyans suddenly have twitter accounts and you tube accounts claiming freedom in Libya despite the fact they have incredibly low internet numbers?

Where is the proof he bombed his people? Oh yes, the UK and US government. The same governments in danger from an African oilman selling his oil in gold. It's not like they had to make things up to justify a war?

Do you actually think we are there to help these people? You say this war is messy. Who is it for? You are calling ME the fascist buzzword yet you are content with bombing a sovereign nation and its people?

This is exactly what I mean, you strawman and throw insults then contradict yourself. How are you helping people by bombing them and setting up central banks and army bases?

The army sided with him, the people sided with him. Why are you not happy with what this so called ''majority'' decides. The rebels are losing. They dont have support.

Please show links and proof that:

A) the rebels/Free Libyan state forces are losing
B) They're setting up an "oil bank" whatever that is


Never did I say I was content at bombing anyone. Gaddafi brought this down upon himself when he started using heavy weaponry on his own people. Oh and NATO is bombing the army primarily, not the people. : )

Написано от Tik-Tok, 05.08.2011 at 08:34

>Does't make it a good place to live

So constant war between tribes is good is it? One of the richest countries in Africa?

Seems like your great skill in argumentation is fracturing: you're searching for false implication in what I write. I don't see how you can extrapolate this from me saying that "one strongman uniting tribes doesn't make it a good place to live"

It's not a zero-sum game, you know. There are other paths to development.

>I myself will contribute to finding alternative ways of producing energy and keeping the world spinning. don't get me wrong: I do not like Big Oil and their agenda. I am aware that they have waaaay too much influence over governments, even the biggest governments. I know of peak oil, and I'm of the opinion that the sooner we reach it, the sooner humans will jolt themselves into real action on weaning ourselves off the oil addiction. On this, it seems, we agree.

There aren't any other ways. There is no alternative. Every energy resource is limited and NOTHING comes close to the output of oil. Solar energy requires minerals from China and they aren't in abundance. Nuclear is great but it's expensive and energy inefficient until it gets off the ground. Wind requires materials not in abundance. I requires energy to get energy. Oil gave an output we can never hope to reach without an utterly wildly different technology.

>Yes I do. Long-time democracies, relatively free and open societies, media separate from the state; only a fool would trust Russia over anyone else on matters that do not directly concern Russia (and even then...).
>media separate from the state

Oh that's laughable. The state has complete dominion over the media. They dictate what can and can't be said, what TV stations are allowed, what newspapers can print. The BBC is completely dominated by government control. It is the governments mouthpiece and it has been so since it was first created. These news institutions can swap party preferences but they will always follow the government line. This is no different in any country with any media, even Russia. Whenever war breaks out, media ALWAYS backs the war.

I ask you again. How is our media anymore trustworthy when our governments have an agenda. Of course Russia has an agenda but so do the US and Europe. That interest is a severe need to make sure oilmen don't sell their oil in gold.


>They are funding a people's movement against an autocrat who threatened to unleash violence on these people.

So what about when the US burnt alive its citizens in WACO? Ruby Ridge? Or when the police gun down civilians? What is the proof Gaddafi killed his own people? Oh yes, our trustworthy little media. And when two different stories emerge? Who do you trust?

Why did the media report the bombing of Gaddaffis family? You call him a dictator yet he has ruled with the peoples support for decades. You claim you support the majority? But it seems you only support the majority when they follow what you say. Will the rebels be any different? WHo are we to decide on behalf of a sovereign nations people.

>I miss-spoke when I said the world will keep spinning in my direction; it was too general a statement. I am many things, but ignorant is not one of them. the economics haven't collapsed, you're just being wildly alarmist to give yourself more weight in the argument.

Our economies are going down. The US is in a debt larger than the entire worlds GDP. They cannot pay it off. The EU is going to be bailed out by the IMF. We are going down, nothings going to stop it. The US economy is going to collapse. It's happening as we speak, this is why they are having emergency meetings right now. They have bestowed the entire power of congress into 12 people while the president has veto power, effectively making him a dictator. It's all happening right now.

>Whether that statistic is correct or not, you're right here in that we depend too heavily on oil and that has to change.

It's too late, any real alternatives are being pushed aside. By the time anyone wants to make a change, ti will be too late. In just a few years, only the richest of people will be able to fly on air travel.

>Again, I miss-spoke. I meant to say in terms of general political direction, Britain will go the way I choose, not yours.

YOUR WAY? HA HA HA. So economic collapse is your preferred option. You WANT to keep paying extortionate taxes to a government unrepresentative of its people, to pay off failed private business?

It isn't YOUR way. You have been told to believe it is something you want. You are so sure of it yourself, even your obsession with multi culturalism. You do what you are told, you think what you are told to think. The best part is, you actually think it's your own thoughts and ideas.

Написано от BASED Ironail, 05.08.2011 at 08:45

Написано от Tik-Tok, 05.08.2011 at 08:34

>Does't make it a good place to live

So constant war between tribes is good is it? One of the richest countries in Africa?

>Gaddafi had a knee-jerk reaction and, as soon as hints of a rebellion started

And where did this hint come from? When did hundreds of thousands of Libyans suddenly have twitter accounts and you tube accounts claiming freedom in Libya despite the fact they have incredibly low internet numbers?

Where is the proof he bombed his people? Oh yes, the UK and US government. The same governments in danger from an African oilman selling his oil in gold. It's not like they had to make things up to justify a war?

Do you actually think we are there to help these people? You say this war is messy. Who is it for? You are calling ME the fascist buzzword yet you are content with bombing a sovereign nation and its people?

This is exactly what I mean, you strawman and throw insults then contradict yourself. How are you helping people by bombing them and setting up central banks and army bases?

The army sided with him, the people sided with him. Why are you not happy with what this so called ''majority'' decides. The rebels are losing. They dont have support.

Please show links and proof that:

A) the rebels/Free Libyan state forces are losing
B) They're setting up an "oil bank" whatever that is


Never did I say I was content at bombing anyone. Gaddafi brought this down upon himself when he started using heavy weaponry on his own people. Oh and NATO is bombing the army primarily, not the people. : )

Libyan Rebels Form Their Own Central Bank
http://www.cnbc.com/id/42308613/Libyan_Rebels_Form_Their_Own_Central_Bank

Libya Airstrikes- Russian Satellite Detect NO EVIDENCE of Bombings
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iytgO0tscSI

Gaddafi Winning - Opposition in Chaos - Obama Right to Stay Away
http://newsflavor.com/world/middle-east/gaddafi-winning-opposition-in-chaos-obama-right-to-stay-away/

Gaddafi family deaths reinforce doubts about Nato's UN mandate
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/may/01/gaddadi-family-deaths-reinforce-doubts

Libyan rebels out of money
http://af.reuters.com/article/topNews/idAFJOE75H01K20110618

Написано от BASED Ironail, 05.08.2011 at 08:47

Написано от Tik-Tok, 05.08.2011 at 08:34

>Does't make it a good place to live

So constant war between tribes is good is it? One of the richest countries in Africa?

Seems like your great skill in argumentation is fracturing: you're searching for false implication in what I write. I don't see how you can extrapolate this from me saying that "one strongman uniting tribes doesn't make it a good place to live"

It's not a zero-sum game, you know. There are other paths to development.

Yes, because backwards tribes fighting to kill each other are going to follow democracy. Just like the rebels who look so democratic. The other apths you speak of don't exist. People, most especially tribes, only follow strength.

Написано от Tik-Tok, 05.08.2011 at 08:58

There aren't any other ways. There is no alternative. Every energy resource is limited and NOTHING comes close to the output of oil. Solar energy requires minerals from China and they aren't in abundance. Nuclear is great but it's expensive and energy inefficient until it gets off the ground. Wind requires materials not in abundance. I requires energy to get energy. Oil gave an output we can never hope to reach without an utterly wildly different technology.

Such defeatism! Have a bit of faith in human ingenuity, please! We're talking about a species who went from the steam engine to nanotechnology in less than 150 years. Solar isn't as bad as you think. Not in the lab, at any rate. We just need economies of scale to shift into higher gear : )

Написано от Tik-Tok, 05.08.2011 at 08:58

Oh that's laughable. The state has complete dominion over the media. They dictate what can and can't be said, what TV stations are allowed, what newspapers can print. The BBC is completely dominated by government control. It is the governments mouthpiece and it has been so since it was first created. These news institutions can swap party preferences but they will always follow the government line. This is no different in any country with any media, even Russia. Whenever war breaks out, media ALWAYS backs the war.

I ask you again. How is our media anymore trustworthy when our governments have an agenda. Of course Russia has an agenda but so do the US and Europe. That interest is a severe need to make sure oilmen don't sell their oil in gold.

Paranoia, yet again. I think you're expecting too much with your radical notions of freedom. Just because the BBC doesn't criticize every single last thing the government does does not make it the mouthpiece of said government. Please go and read some real propaganda (I recommend Chinese newspapers, there are some translations out there) and come back and compare with the relative liberty of our media.

Написано от Tik-Tok, 05.08.2011 at 08:58

So what about when the US burnt alive its citizens in WACO? Ruby Ridge? Or when the police gun down civilians? What is the proof Gaddafi killed his own people? Oh yes, our trustworthy little media. And when two different stories emerge? Who do you trust?

Inquiries were carried out and heads rolled. Oh and you're comparing a wholesale massacre of civilians with the partly-accidental death of a dangerous sect leader and his followers. Please, don't you have anything better?

Написано от Tik-Tok, 05.08.2011 at 08:58

Why did the media report the bombing of Gaddaffis family? You call him a dictator yet he has ruled with the peoples support for decades. You claim you support the majority? But it seems you only support the majority when they follow what you say. Will the rebels be any different? Who are we to decide on behalf of a sovereign nations people.

Perhaps to show you people, who pull wool over their eyes, that they are indeed not one-sided and biased. The mainstream media does report NATO's blunders and accidental civilian deaths.

Who are we indeed to decide on behalf of sovereign nations. I'd be glad to get more into that topic (interventionism vs. laissez-faire) but it's a large one, so I suggest we keep it for another day.

Написано от Tik-Tok, 05.08.2011 at 08:58

Our economies are going down. The US is in a debt larger than the entire worlds GDP. They cannot pay it off. The EU is going to be bailed out by the IMF. We are going down, nothings going to stop it. The US economy is going to collapse. It's happening as we speak, this is why they are having emergency meetings right now. They have bestowed the entire power of congress into 12 people while the president has veto power, effectively making him a dictator. It's all happening right now.

First off, again, money and "world GDP" are very arcane concepts, but since you set so much store for statistics, I'll have you know that the USA's debt is roughly equal to its own GDP, which is around 14 trillion USD. Considering the world's total GDP (again, very murky concept) is 70+ trillion, that's just you failing elementary maths.

The economy doesn't collapse, that's just wishful thinking by radicals like you. It can slump, and it might - probably will. but again, you and I are waaaaaay in over our heads when discussing something as mind-bogglingly complex as "economy". I'm not going to be a hypocrite like you and pretend I know what I'm talking about here.

Написано от Tik-Tok, 05.08.2011 at 08:58

It's too late, any real alternatives are being pushed aside. By the time anyone wants to make a change, it will be too late. In just a few years, only the richest of people will be able to fly on air travel.

Again, have a bit more faith in humans, lad.

Написано от Tik-Tok, 05.08.2011 at 08:58

YOUR WAY? HA HA HA. So economic collapse is your preferred option. You WANT to keep paying extortionate taxes to a government unrepresentative of its people, to pay off failed private business?

It isn't YOUR way. You have been told to believe it is something you want. You are so sure of it yourself, even your obsession with multi culturalism. You do what you are told, you think what you are told to think. The best part is, you actually think it's your own thoughts and ideas.

No. If the government starts fucking around too much, I'll vote another, better one in. Ah the joys of democratic elections in the west, where vote-buying and corruption are pretty minimal...

As for the second part of this, well. That's a matter for high-flying philosophers like Fruit. No real place in this debate.

Fuck's sake, sorry about that, trying to fix my message.



edit: fixed.

Написано от Tik-Tok, 05.08.2011 at 09:07

Libyan Rebels Form Their Own Central Bank
http://www.cnbc.com/id/42308613/Libyan_Rebels_Form_Their_Own_Central_Bank

Libya Airstrikes- Russian Satellite Detect NO EVIDENCE of Bombings
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iytgO0tscSI

Gaddafi Winning - Opposition in Chaos - Obama Right to Stay Away
http://newsflavor.com/world/middle-east/gaddafi-winning-opposition-in-chaos-obama-right-to-stay-away/

Gaddafi family deaths reinforce doubts about Nato's UN mandate
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/may/01/gaddadi-family-deaths-reinforce-doubts

Libyan rebels out of money
http://af.reuters.com/article/topNews/idAFJOE75H01K20110618

1) So they're forming their own central bank, laying down institutions for their (hopefully) future country. This is a bad thing? Are you anti-capitalist too? And who cares if outsiders got involved? Still scared of the jews?


2) Russian media, I don't trust it. Not when Russia still harbours animosity towards the west.

3,4,5) According to other, HUGE news sources (The Economist), the Rebels are advancing. And though I sometimes dislike the Economist, such a huge news publication had better make sure it can back up what it says.

Such defeatism! Have a bit of faith in human ingenuity, please! We're talking about a species who went from the steam engine to nanotechnology in less than 150 years. Solar isn't as bad as you think. Not in the lab, at any rate. We just need economies of scale to shift into higher gear : )

What faith in humanity? We could be mining asteroids and gas giants by now. We could have satellites on far reaching systems but instead we preferred spending all our resources on pointless wars for oligarchical companies, extreme welfare and corrupt governments.

>Paranoia, yet again. I think you're expecting too much with your radical notions of freedom. Just because the BBC doesn't criticize every single last thing the government does does not make it the mouthpiece of said government. Please go and read some real propaganda (I recommend Chinese newspapers, there are some translations out there) and come back and compare with the relative liberty of our media.

Why do you think it is ANY different? It is the illusion of difference that is misleading you. They will talk and bitch about government but whenever anything like war comes along, they completely switch lines. The whole phone hacking scandal should open your eyes to how much power government really has over the media. They do what they are told when it comes down to it. You call it paranoia, yet all you do is give ideological opinions. Not facts.

Government has complete control of the media, at the same time the media has just as much control on the political parties. It is a symbiotic relationship. Our governments constantly lie to us. They limit our freedoms and liberty claiming it is for our safety.

>Inquiries were carried out and heads rolled. Oh and you're comparing a wholesale massacre of civilians with the partly-accidental death of a dangerous sect leader and his followers. Please, don't you have anything better?

Inquiries... ha ha ha. What stopped another WACO was the Oklahoma city bombing. What stopped the banning of automatics was the huge increase of imports of automatic weapons into the US. The Clinton administration realized that the guns the american citizens were bringing in weren't going to be handed over. They were going to be used against anyone who tried to take them away.

The only proof of a civilian massacre is by our government. And I ask again, what makes them so trustworthy when they have an agenda.

>Perhaps to show you people, who pull wool over their eyes, that they are indeed not one-sided and biased. The mainstream media does report NATO's blunders and accidental civilian deaths.

But it doesn't report Gaddafis oil for gold policy. It doesn't show the Libyan military side. It calls the opposition ''rebels'' and ''freedom fighters.'' The propaganda is obvious.

>Who are we indeed to decide on behalf of sovereign nations. I'd be glad to get more into that topic (interventionism vs. laissez-faire) but it's a large one, so I suggest we keep it for another day.

You claim to support the majority and yet here you are, going against it. Hypocrite.

>First off, again, money and "world GDP" are very arcane concepts, but since you set so much store for statistics, I'll have you know that the USA's debt is roughly equal to its own GDP, which is around 14 trillion USD. Considering the world's total GDP (again, very murky concept) is 70+ trillion, that's just you failing elementary maths.

No no no you fool.
http://money.msn.com/currency/the-nations-75-trillion-dollar-problem-fleckenstein.aspx

It does include future obligations. You make all these ignorant claims. Stop insulting me when you have no clue as to what you are talking about.. as usual.

>The economy doesn't collapse, that's just wishful thinking by radicals like you. It can slump, and it might - probably will. but again, you and I are waaaaaay in over our heads when discussing something as mind-bogglingly complex as "economy". I'm not going to be a hypocrite like you and pretend I know what I'm talking about here.

It does collapse. The US is high speed train heading for a concrete block. They are losing their grip as the worlds reserve currency, they have astonishing debt and have complete dependence on china investing in the dollar.

>Again, have a bit more faith in humans, lad.

This isn't about faith in some new technology. We are living in a golden age of abundance. An age with easy travel and food markets accessible from across the world. That age is closing. The West ''may'' survive but you can be damn sure hundreds of millions wont.

>No. If the government starts fucking around too much, I'll vote another, better one in. Ah the joys of democratic elections in the west, where vote-buying and corruption are pretty minimal...

No corruption? So you don't realize how easily our MP's are bought and sold by lobbyists? The head of the BBC was appointed by a man who had paid 50K into the labour party for a few years. Government is bought and sold, whomever you choose has already been funded by private companies or unions.

If the government fucks around, you can't do anything. Voting doesn't do anything. It hasn't done anything since the 50s. It's always the same, Socialism, the neo conservatism, then neo liberalism. Always fails.

If a government like ours continues to restrict our liberty (which is doing) voting wont do a damn thing. You're going to learn that the hard way when you grow up.

1) So they're forming their own central bank, laying down institutions for their (hopefully) future country. This is a bad thing? Are you anti-capitalist too? And who cares if outsiders got involved? Still scared of the jews?

So, rebels who have no knowledge of banking, major jihad dist links just magically set up a central oil bank while having their arses handed to them by the people they are fighting.


>2) Russian media, I don't trust it. Not when Russia still harbours animosity towards the west.

But you trust your own media which has an agenda to cripple a country trying to sell oil for gold?

3,4,5) According to other, HUGE news sources (The Economist), the Rebels are advancing. And though I sometimes dislike the Economist, such a huge news publication had better make sure it can back up what it says.

They have no money, Gaddaffi is very much alive and they are being pushed back. They have lost. The only way they possibly win is if NATO goes in full force and gets their armies involved.

Which will more than likely happen sometime in October.

Написано от Tik-Tok, 05.08.2011 at 09:41

Why do you think it is ANY different? It is the illusion of difference that is misleading you. They will talk and bitch about government but whenever anything like war comes along, they completely switch lines. The whole phone hacking scandal should open your eyes to how much power government really has over the media. They do what they are told when it comes down to it. You call it paranoia, yet all you do is give ideological opinions. Not facts.

The whole phone-hacking scandal actually opened my eyes to how much power the media has over governments, if anything, and most people will agree. Oh and it's a bit rich to claim all I give is ideological opinion, coming from you sir.

Написано от Tik-Tok, 05.08.2011 at 09:41

Government has complete control of the media, at the same time the media has just as much control on the political parties. It is a symbiotic relationship. Our governments constantly lie to us. They limit our freedoms and liberty claiming it is for our safety.

And I'm happy with that, because it seems like they've struck a fairly good balance. I feel safe and free in Britain, and 99% of people on the street will tell you the same thing. Oh, sorry about pulling that statistic out of my arse, was just taking leaf out of you book.

Написано от Tik-Tok, 05.08.2011 at 09:41

Inquiries... ha ha ha. What stopped another WACO was the Oklahoma city bombing. What stopped the banning of automatics was the huge increase of imports of automatic weapons into the US. The Clinton administration realized that the guns the american citizens were bringing in weren't going to be handed over. They were going to be used against anyone who tried to take them away.

The only proof of a civilian massacre is by our government. And I ask again, what makes them so trustworthy when they have an agenda.

No, you fucking dickshit. There's ample proof of civilian massacres from media EVERYWHERE, even fucking Al-Jazeera, a Qatari-owned news channel

Написано от Tik-Tok, 05.08.2011 at 09:41

But it doesn't report Gaddafis oil for gold policy. It doesn't show the Libyan military side. It calls the opposition ''rebels'' and ''freedom fighters.'' The propaganda is obvious.

This I agree could've been reported on a bit more, as I'd never heard of it myself. will look closer into it.

Написано от Tik-Tok, 05.08.2011 at 09:41

>Who are we indeed to decide on behalf of sovereign nations. I'd be glad to get more into that topic (interventionism vs. laissez-faire) but it's a large one, so I suggest we keep it for another day.

You claim to support the majority and yet here you are, going against it. Hypocrite.

wat

Написано от Tik-Tok, 05.08.2011 at 09:41

No no no you fool.
http://money.msn.com/currency/the-nations-75-trillion-dollar-problem-fleckenstein.aspx

It does include future obligations. You make all these ignorant claims. Stop insulting me when you have no clue as to what you are talking about.. as usual.

There you are again, claiming to understand something as arcane as debt obligations and other financial bullshit. Please stop, this is embarrassing.

Написано от Tik-Tok, 05.08.2011 at 09:41

It does collapse. The US is high speed train heading for a concrete block. They are losing their grip as the worlds reserve currency, they have astonishing debt and have complete dependence on china investing in the dollar.

This isn't about faith in some new technology. We are living in a golden age of abundance. An age with easy travel and food markets accessible from across the world. That age is closing. The West ''may'' survive but you can be damn sure hundreds of millions wont.


If a government like ours continues to restrict our liberty (which is doing) voting wont do a damn thing. You're going to learn that the hard way when you grow up.

Yeah ok. Seems like you have a new talent now: doomsaying and augury. Meet up in 20-30 years to discuss this all, we'll see who was right : )






I'm off for now, going home.

Написано от Tik-Tok, 05.08.2011 at 09:45

1) So they're forming their own central bank, laying down institutions for their (hopefully) future country. This is a bad thing? Are you anti-capitalist too? And who cares if outsiders got involved? Still scared of the jews?

So, rebels who have no knowledge of banking, major jihad dist links just magically set up a central oil bank while having their arses handed to them by the people they are fighting.


>2) Russian media, I don't trust it. Not when Russia still harbours animosity towards the west.

But you trust your own media which has an agenda to cripple a country trying to sell oil for gold?

3,4,5) According to other, HUGE news sources (The Economist), the Rebels are advancing. And though I sometimes dislike the Economist, such a huge news publication had better make sure it can back up what it says.

They have no money, Gaddaffi is very much alive and they are being pushed back. They have lost. The only way they possibly win is if NATO goes in full force and gets their armies involved.

Which will more than likely happen sometime in October.

http://www.economist.com/node/21525407

Yep ok bro.

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=is+gaddafi+pushing+back+august+2011


as you can see, mixed reports, but leaning in favour of the rebels. you're full of shit, kthxbye

цитирам:

>The whole phone-hacking scandal actually opened my eyes to how much power the media has over governments, if anything, and most people will agree. Oh and it's a bit rich to claim all I give is ideological opinion, coming from you sir.

You are so blind. Murdoch has been completely stripped of any power he once had. He has been stopped from the deal with bskyb and they have him being questioned. Nothign will happen to him. One thing you also did not notice is who was giving him the whipping. It was the Labour party, he backed the Tories. The Tories kept quiet and let Labour do what it wanted becuase Murdoch support Labour back in 96. It shows how much power government really has. The News of the World stopped printing.

Open your bloody eyes.

>And I'm happy with that, because it seems like they've struck a fairly good balance. I feel safe and free in Britain, and 99% of people on the street will tell you the same thing. Oh, sorry about pulling that statistic out of my arse, was just taking leaf out of you book.

How do you feel safe? When your entire life is run by unelected people. It does not cause any balance for the people. Only for the government and its business partners. It does not create balance as the media NEVER mentions any other parties. It slams almost all parties other than the Tories and Labour. That isn't balance. That is total control.

>This I agree could've been reported on a bit more, as I'd never heard of it myself. will look closer into it.

See, you don't know. You claim so much yet you are ignorant.

>wat

The overwhelming majority of Libya supports Gaddaffi.

>There you are again, claiming to understand something as arcane as debt obligations and other financial bullshit. Please stop, this is embarrassing.

No, you claimed I needed to recheck math. It is YOU who had no clue how much debt the US was in. You are embarrassing yourself constantly throughout this debate because you have no sodding about what you are talking about. You said you didn't know about economics so how can you claim you are right.

It's obvious you have no idea what you are talking about.

>eah ok. Seems like you have a new talent now: doomsaying and augury. Meet up in 20-30 years to discuss this all, we'll see who was right : )

This is your attitude. Its apathetic, its ignorant and its down right bloody dangerous. You accept everything the media says as fact. You accept government taking liberty because you believe it secures you. You believe you can simply vote out tyrannical governments and that huge energy problems can be solved by faith in an energy source that doesn't exist.

I prefer to investigate, to understand both sides and at least be aware of what is happening rather than be shocked by it when it does. I would love it if governments truly weren't corrupt and that everything we did was right, I would love it if oil never ran out and we could live happily ever after.

That's simply not true. It's very clear how truly ignorant you are. You are a child.





I'm off for now, going home.

Nice quoting skills.

цитирам:

The overwhelming majority of Libya supports Gaddaffi.

Says the native Libyan. amirite?

цитирам:

No, you claimed I needed to recheck math. It is YOU who had no clue how much debt the US was in. You are embarrassing yourself constantly throughout this debate because you have no sodding about what you are talking about. You said you didn't know about economics so how can you claim you are right.

Wrong, I'm claiming that YOU are wrong. I do not know enough to pronounce myself on the subject. Very few people in the world can assert anything about "economics" with ironclad certitude. A fuck-up musician living in London and off his tits on coke half the time definitely doesn't have the legitimacy to say "the economy is collapsing".

Написано от BASED Ironail, 05.08.2011 at 10:05

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=is+gaddafi+pushing+back+august+2011


as you can see, mixed reports, but leaning in favour of the rebels. you're full of shit, kthxbye

You're counting links?

Really? I mean really? Do you actually think ill equipped, untrained soldiers can possibly defeat the Libyan military? Without NATO bombing, they don't have a chance and even with it. It's simply a case of time.

Gaddaffi isn't dead. He's still very much alive. The people love him and that is how they will win.

Another thing you don't realize is that retaliation we may suffer from this. The Libyan people will not forget what we are doing and neither will Gaddaffi.

Написано от BASED Ironail, 05.08.2011 at 10:12

цитирам:

The overwhelming majority of Libya supports Gaddaffi.

Says the native Libyan. amirite?

цитирам:

No, you claimed I needed to recheck math. It is YOU who had no clue how much debt the US was in. You are embarrassing yourself constantly throughout this debate because you have no sodding about what you are talking about. You said you didn't know about economics so how can you claim you are right.

Wrong, I'm claiming that YOU are wrong. I do not know enough to pronounce myself on the subject. Very few people in the world can assert anything about "economics" with ironclad certitude. A fuck-up musician living in London and off his tits on coke half the time definitely doesn't have the legitimacy to say "the economy is collapsing".

Oh that butthurt ad hominem. It's delicious. I never said I had iron clad certitude but any simple minded idiot who can understand the situation can see what is coming. Economist have been warning about this for a very long time. Our system is unsustainable. The US spending is unsustainable. 70 trillion dollars worth of debt and rising.

Not to mention the partial audit of the FED which showed they lent out 15 trillion to banks around the world without an interest. That's just a partial audit. Lord knows how much else they lent out.

The US may likely go into hyperinflation due to this constant spending and circulation of money.

I may be a musician but i do it because I love it. It doesn't mean that is all I know. You are such a whiney little statist. You're just mad that half of things I say confuse you.

If the media keeps dangerous pro-gun radicals like you out of the way and downtrodden, I'll let that slide.

Glad you're enjoying my ad hominem, I'm tailoring it especially for you. I did say that's all you deserve from me.


I am very confused that anyone holds views like yours when living in a safe, open and free society like England's.

Написано от BASED Ironail, 05.08.2011 at 10:21

Glad you're enjoying my ad hominem, I'm tailoring it especially for you. I did say that's all you deserve from me.

And so it ends as always. I school you and you run away. I'm not surprised, you are obviously clueless. I give sources, I give information, I am consistent while you keep insulting me.

That is all you can do. I'd be terrified if I was as ignorant as you are and someone told me these things. It's easier just to deny it and claim they are crazy.

In every debate we have, you always run off with insults. Hopefully, one day... you'll scrutinize rather than vilify. But that's expecting alot from a frightened little statist.

Написано от Tik-Tok, 04.08.2011 at 19:44

That was the most pathetic too long didn't read argument I have ever read. You call Libya oppressive. Did you know what Libya was like before Gaddaffi? Before the union? It was split up tribes and different militaries. The Libyan people love him so who are we to claim otherwise? They have the same average income as Russia, a similar GDP to Italy. Healthcare, roads. They have things the average Africa can only dream of. They are building an artificial river to rival the Nile. It will create massive areas of farmland and fresh water. They have never taken any loans from the UN and are almost entirely self sufficient. Now NATO is bombing the Libyan people, funding jihaddist rebels who have already agreed to a 30 year Israeli base and an oil central bank. Do you really think this rag tag group even know what a central bank is or does? They are pawns.

First off, give me sources which shows evidence of your "tribes".

The Libyan people do not love him, otherwise we wouldn't most likely talk about this thread. Also, i have got a libyan friend who can confirm my statement.

>Income as Russia.
>GDP as Italy.

I so lol'd.

Healthcare and roads are only in range of Gaddafi's officers influence range. Otherwise it's just plain dust.

Also, an averige African country is most likely a country ruled by another dictator being small and full of hunger. Libya had the resources to do so.

Sources to the artifical river plz.

They are bombing the army, and Gaddafi is in middle of those people, also, Gaddafi uses human shields, that's why people are bombed.

And please, stop believing those stupid conspiracy theories those jelly anti-americans give to you.

Написано от Tik-Tok, 05.08.2011 at 10:25

Написано от BASED Ironail, 05.08.2011 at 10:21

Glad you're enjoying my ad hominem, I'm tailoring it especially for you. I did say that's all you deserve from me.

And so it ends as always. I school you and you run away. I'm not surprised, you are obviously clueless. I give sources, I give information, I am consistent while you keep insulting me.

That is all you can do. I'd be terrified if I was as ignorant as you are and someone told me these things. It's easier just to deny it and claim they are crazy.

In every debate we have, you always run off with insults. Hopefully, one day... you'll scrutinize rather than vilify. But that's expecting alot from a frightened little statist.

Okay I can't find the message you wrote earlier, but you make a great point Tik, you definitely changed my oppiinon

Anyway, I need to go. I'll see you in Sunday evening.

--First off, give me sources which shows evidence of your "tribes".

>The Libyan people do not love him, otherwise we wouldn't most likely talk about this thread. Also, i have got a libyan friend who can confirm my statement.

One person... compared to hundreds of videos showing support of Gaddaffi. I know a Tunisian who says He hates the Libyan military pushing into Tunisia but he wouldn't support the rebels over Gaddaffi.

-->Income as Russia.
-->GDP as Italy.
--I so lol'd.

My bad... my absolute bad. That was atrocious, forgive me. I'm get in to all sorts of debates and muddle up my numbers. Im mixing up GDP, Italy and Mexico.

Average Income
Out of the top 100 according to the CIA World Fact book. Libya is at 62 with the average Libyan earning 14,000. Russia is 55, with the average ruskie earning $15,900. The amounts are fairly similar. Mexico has the same GDP as Italy and yet they are 66 with $13,900.

Using the IMF they are 63rd with $13,805
And under the World Bank, they are 43rd at $16,502

Using the same sort of sources, they have a similar GDP to New Zealand with Libya coming at 64th with 106,094 millions. Which is about 100+ billion dollars a year.

Now Russia have a GDP into the trillions yet Turkey has less income per capita than the average Libyan.

The point is, the average Libyan is fairly well off compared to ALOT of other countrie with 10 TIMES their GDP.

>Healthcare and roads are only in range of Gaddafi's officers influence range. Otherwise it's just plain dust. Also, an averige African country is most likely a country ruled by another dictator being small and full of hunger. Libya had the resources to do so.

Basic health care is provided to all citizens. Health, training, rehabilitation, education, housing, family issues, and disability and old-age benefits are all regulated by "Decision No. 111" (dated December 9, 1999) of the General People's Committee on the Promulgation of the By-Law Enforcement Law No. 20 of 1998 on the Social Care Fund. The health care system is not purely state-run but rather a mixed system of public and private care. In comparison to other states in the Middle East, the health status of the population is relatively good. Childhood immunization is almost universal. The clean water supply has increased, and sanitation has been improved. The country's major hospitals are in Tripoli and Benghazi, and private health clinics and diagnostic centers, offering newer equipment and better service, compete with the public sector. However, if they can afford it, many Libyans nonetheless travel to either Tunisia or Europe if they need sophisticated medical treatment.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_in_Libya

Not the best source. Libyan healthcare is pretty good compared to the rest of Africa.

>Sources to the artifical river plz.

http://american_almanac.tripod.com/libya.htm




They are bombing the army, and Gaddafi is in middle of those people, also, Gaddafi uses human shields, that's why people are bombed.

They are doing a terrible job and bombing civilians. They killed Gaddaffis own family.

>And please, stop believing those stupid conspiracy theories those jelly anti-americans give to you.

How am I Anti-American? These aren't conspiracy theories. These are facts. Deal with it.

That feel when I live in Russia and I have never heard about "Russian sattelites noticing no Qaddafi bombings of his people". Yet I watch news TV channels and read news websites pretty often. Also, our president said that Qaddafi is no longer legitimate ruler of Lybia and he is banned from entering Russia.

Seems like Gaddafi is on the way out after all.

Great success in the name of Mediterranean unity and future collaboration. Also democracy, freedom of expression and of the media.

Написано от BASED Ironail, 23.08.2011 at 12:27

Seems like Gaddafi is on the way out after all.

Great success in the name of Mediterranean unity and future collaboration. Also democracy, freedom of expression and of the media.

The insanity of your post is incredible. Again, you cannot fathom what is going on in Libya and have no curiosity as to what occurred. NATO sent in special forces along the beachhead of Tripoli, they then boated in Jihad-dist gangs to create panic. They also bombed the city for 24 hours solid killing over 1200 people and that's just yesterdays estimate. They used Apache helicopters to shred the city night and day shooting anything that moved. Then the gangs went around looting businesses, hotels, houses and raping any women they came across.

There is one thing the media isn't pointing out. It seems that Libyan army has disappeared. They are claiming they have deserted but this isn't true. They held back NATO for 6 months with minimal force then suddenly just let the entire rebel army in? Gaddafi is nowhere to be seen yet snipers are everywhere. If you watch the rebels, you will notice they aren't disciplined, most of the gunfire in the city isn't aimed at opposing forces, it's them screaming ALLAH U AKBAR while firing all their ammo in the air.

Libyan forces trained with Yugoslavs, the best of the best guerrilla fighters. This is Stalingrad. The troops are waiting to pounce on the rebels unexpected.

At the end of it all. In whos favor is this? Why are you so happy that civilians are been murdered and their homes/businesses looted by foreigners? Most of these so called rebels aren't even Libyans, they are Jihaddists from all over the middle east who have been supplied by NATO to bring down a benevolent dictator. He's not even a true dictator. There is a government which has VETO power. They have healthcare, education, high literacy, decent average income and have been planning this river which will get them out of oil dependency so they can set up a competitive market with economic independence.

Libya has the highest HDI in Africa. More than most oil rich countries. Gaddaffi was the one who pushed the legislation to share the oil profits with the people, something the Government was against.


Source:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_Human_Development_Index

Why destroy a country with the highest HDI in Africa? Higher than Eastern European countries? Tell me, are we bombing Eastern Europe? Saudi Arabia? Oh no, wait... The Saudi Arabs do what they are told. The only reason NATO is in Libya destroying it, is to stop Gaddaffi issuing the new gold currency which would have meant that Western nations would have to buy oil with gold rather than inflated debt currencies.

This has NOTHING to do with democracy or freedom which by the way are completely over rated concepts that Western nations have completely forgotten about in the past 50 years. Why haven't people like YOU learnt anything from Iraq and Afghanistan? Did you skip the whole ''Non-Intervention'' is best? Or do you really believe the propaganda crap that our media has been pushing?

Astonishing, I bet you are smiling over some petty internet argument, gleefully rubbing your hands just so you were ''right.'' Watch the death toll rise. All I can hope is that the Libyan army is preparing to annihilate the so call ''rebel'' scum who are only there to loot, rape and murder for their NATO masters.

You're so entertaining, darling. Please continue.