Eurostan/Eurobad

Написано от RaulPB, 30.05.2017 at 13:28

Написано от Brsjak, 30.05.2017 at 13:24

It is a fact that Islam is the most violent religion on Earth they are responsible for most terrorist acts + i dont see muslim apoligist for Islamic Conquests + you found only 1 quote of the Bible beaing violent while the Quran has multiple instances of violent verses in it + i dont see as much Christian terrorist attacks as much as there are Islamic ones + that verse of the bible didnt say anything to enchourege you to kill someone while the Islamic ones clearly do

Ok want me to find you every single quotes from the bible that are violent? Will that make you happy and stop arguing about non sense? Ofc the bible has many more and you could easily find them as well, it's not my problem that you won't want to find them. Read this if you please: http://archive.boston.com/bostonglobe/ideas/articles/2009/03/08/dark_passages/?page=4

Islam is not responsible for terrorist attacks, terrorist groups are. That's like saying all Spain/Europe/christianity is responsible for the barbaric acts some people did in America, during the ww2 or during the crusades...

THE CRUSADES
Ww2 was a conflict where most of the sufferes in Europe were slavs and jews not muslim muslims cooporated with Nazis
The Bible has violent quotes but do you see them practiced by Christians now Find a Christian theocracy that (exept vatican) and find how much muslim theocrachies are there
Islam is ressponisble for terrorist acts the organizations that do it are islamic and justify their actions with the Quran (which absolotly premits what they do)
+ there are tons of apologies from Amercians Spain and Europe for Native America and WW2 find a muslim apologies for the muslim wars of conquest

Написано от RaulPB, 30.05.2017 at 08:14

Написано от Helly, 30.05.2017 at 07:21

You know what raul, your turning into a real prick. How about you fuck off? Sorry your empire wasn't even the best in its golden era, so you got to be a hater for no reason what so ever. Cattle is a natural resource, manufactoring is a culmination of several natural resources being used to create a product. As for oil we have shit tons, we just prefer to destroy the rest of the world's supply first before we use our own. Coal is a heavy pollutant but if your broke you rather have it then nothing at all. Maybe I should not of said infrestructure as part of that quote but it is indeed correct existing infrestructure makes rebounding easier after a major collapse just ask the UK or Russia. Lastly you ignored my insightful quote about how man will always fall as corruption is our nature. Instead you wanted to have a dick measuring contest about countries. Every single resource europe has, is also in the United states in higher quantities. So piss off

LMAO helly, did bringing up an empire from 400 years ago really seem a good idea for your argument on natural resources? why do you even get triggered? how did I hate on you? Fuck off

Definition of Natural Resource: resources that exist without actions of humankind. Therefor, cattle, infrastucture, agriculture and manufacturing aren't. It's a fact....

You may have as many tons of oil as you like, but it's really costly to extract since it's really scattered and the method used to extract it (fracking) is proven to be very harmful.

Agree with that, better have coil than nothing. Yet, it might be considered a pollutant toxic enough to discourage its use or else you might end up like china with its eternal smog and health issues.

Well, I do not completely agree with corruption being part of our nature but our social-economic situation obviously takes us in this path, so I'd agree for the most part with what you said about falling empires.

Again, why the fuck do you get triggered? Point me out any single sentence where I started a dick measuring contest! Keep your dick to yourself, I haven't compared shit. Take a deep breath and do not make up paranoias.....

I ended my fall of the United states paragraph with a little positive spin on how even after the twisted corruption and war mongering of the political elite causes societal failure there is hope for the future. Because we have resources available to rebound quickly unlike let's say Venezuela or syria. The 1st thing to come out your mouth was "which resources are those" that in itself is ignorant to say. But it completely misses the point I was trying to make and turned the thread into USA bashing. Lastly cows pigs goats sheep ducks chickens horses and many others exsist without human intervention how are crops or cattle not natural resources?

As for infrestructure and manufacturing, I simply blended my arguement I was more concerned with your lack of knowledge on how even after the United states falls do to our current out put it will rebound quickly. A perfect example of a previous golden age using there old creations to benefiet there current society is russian using the massive USSR military complex to stay relevant politically through there political restructuring.

Написано от Al Fappino, 30.05.2017 at 10:22

Написано от Helly, 29.05.2017 at 19:51

Написано от Al Fappino, 29.05.2017 at 14:37

It never will be, come on..

I'm sure byzantium thought the same way xD

The reasons of why Byzantium fell and what the current society faces (a tendency for a slight increase in islamism in western countries due to multiculturalism and globalization) are completely different.

You can't generalize the "muslimification" of all western countries by picking the examples of Sweden and even Germany, that's not how it works. I can assure you southern european countries for example will not become increasingly muslim and turn muslim completely, for cultural reasons (southern european countries favour a friendly assimilation and miscigenation between peoples: example of Portugal and Spain) or because Greek culture repels it (cuz of Turkey) primarily.

Besides, we all know why countries like Sweden and Germany are taking in thousands and thousands of refugees. It's their only way of dealing with the crisis of an aging population and a possible future bankruptcy of social security and bankruptcy of the State, with a decrease on available manpower in those countries. It has been kind of debunked why Germany welcomes so many refugees and has been welcoming turks. It's because they desperately need more than 1million of new available manpower, to guarantee future economic growth and sustainability and the sustainability of Social Security.

And come on, countries like Portugal and Spain where less than 7% of the population is muslim will never ever have any sizeable amount of muslim communities within their borders. In my country for example, not only muslims are a minority and always will be, our muslim community is deeply entrenched in western values.

This thread was a joke. Only germany france and Sweden have a remote chance of there ever being a real chance at issues with islam and that's because they refuse to acknowledge there is a problem. Germany should of used christian labor such as poles and Ukrainians. It's never a good idea to send for a million ancestors of an ancient enemy xD Especially when you know what islam is capable of.

We already have Bosnia and Albania...

Написано от Zephyrusu, 30.05.2017 at 14:24

We already have Bosnia and Albania...

Exclude them, they can be part of Africa

Написано от Brsjak, 30.05.2017 at 13:43

THE CRUSADES
Ww2 was a conflict where most of the sufferes in Europe were slavs and jews not muslim muslims cooporated with Nazis
The Bible has violent quotes but do you see them practiced by Christians now Find a Christian theocracy that (exept vatican) and find how much muslim theocrachies are there
Islam is ressponisble for terrorist acts the organizations that do it are islamic and justify their actions with the Quran (which absolotly premits what they do)
+ there are tons of apologies from Amercians Spain and Europe for Native America and WW2 find a muslim apologies for the muslim wars of conquest

Those images only show our crusades but they do not show all the battles we've started to invade whatever european, american, asian or african country there is.
Those atrocities were started by Europeans... same as in ww1, hundred years' wars, etc.
Ofc they have been practised!! Just check all kind of "christian" racists in usa. Or just remember how the Inquisition worked. Every single religion has had its own violence... so what? We all have our violent moment, no matter what religion one follows...
Islam is responsible for nothing, never has islam aknowledged those terrorist groups as legit to their opinions. I can also justify killing by the bible but I still won't cause I ain't part of a terrorist group.
Why would muslim people apologize for having conquered north africa, middle east or Spain? As far as I know, they didn't commit genocide in Spain nor put us into gas chambers....

Написано от Helly, 30.05.2017 at 13:44

I ended my fall of the United states paragraph with a little positive spin on how even after the twisted corruption and war mongering of the political elite causes societal failure there is hope for the future. Because we have resources available to rebound quickly unlike let's say Venezuela or syria. The 1st thing to come out your mouth was "which resources are those" that in itself is ignorant to say. But it completely misses the point I was trying to make and turned the thread into USA bashing. Lastly cows pigs goats sheep ducks chickens horses and many others exsist without human intervention how are crops or cattle not natural resources?

As for infrestructure and manufacturing, I simply blended my arguement I was more concerned with your lack of knowledge on how even after the United states falls do to our current out put it will rebound quickly. A perfect example of a previous golden age using there old creations to benefiet there current society is russian using the massive USSR military complex to stay relevant politically through there political restructuring.

It is not ignorant, it is curious. That was an ignorant statement from you.... also, I am not bashing usa, that's something you somehow deduced on your own. Ffs, why would I bash on anything?

Ok, let's see, first of all, plants grow naturally, mixed with others. That being said, crops are not naturally occuring, they are cultivated, thus involves human intervention, therefor not a natural resource. Also, you gotta remember how some of the plants you may grow in crops are not natural to your country or that specific zone.
As for cattle, they are not naturally domestic and motionless between four walls. Animals live in the wild, survive on their own, find their own food, sometimes even migrate, have predators, etc. What we are doing in the cattling industry is human made, therefor not a natural resource.
What we did in ancient times, such as hunting and searching for wild fruits were considered as natural resources since the only thing we did was to collect them from nature as they were.

Sure, I don't know what would happen with usa after it falls. It could break apart into states, it could stay the same. I can't see the future but something you should consider into your equation is that those human made infrastuctures and stuff needs maintenances so if they're left aside too much time, they would render useless, making that rebound harder.

Anyway, I'm not gonna enter such imaginative discussions, it's impossible to tell what would happen exactly, too many variables to ponder... can we just agree in not fighting over something I've never said or thought??? Pls

Написано от RaulPB, 30.05.2017 at 14:39

Написано от Brsjak, 30.05.2017 at 13:43

THE CRUSADES
Ww2 was a conflict where most of the sufferes in Europe were slavs and jews not muslim muslims cooporated with Nazis
The Bible has violent quotes but do you see them practiced by Christians now Find a Christian theocracy that (exept vatican) and find how much muslim theocrachies are there
Islam is ressponisble for terrorist acts the organizations that do it are islamic and justify their actions with the Quran (which absolotly premits what they do)
+ there are tons of apologies from Amercians Spain and Europe for Native America and WW2 find a muslim apologies for the muslim wars of conquest

Those images only show our crusades but they do not show all the battles we've started to invade whatever european, american, asian or african country there is.
Those atrocities were started by Europeans... same as in ww1, hundred years' wars, etc.
Ofc they have been practised!! Just check all kind of "christian" racists in usa. Or just remember how the Inquisition worked. Every single religion has had its own violence... so what? We all have our violent moment, no matter what religion one follows...
Islam is responsible for nothing, never has islam aknowledged those terrorist groups as legit to their opinions. I can also justify killing by the bible but I still won't cause I ain't part of a terrorist group.
As far as I know, they didn't commit genocide in Spain nor put us into gas chambers....

As i said Europeans decolonized those places and paid reperations + in ww1 ONLY MUSLIM NATION TO GET ATTACKED BY EUROPEANS WAS OTTOMAN EMPIRE then they genocided Aremenians
Racism is alot and i mean alot diffrent then killing pepole because off their belief a recent stabbing by a white chirstian male was 2 dead and the most reacent muslim attack was 22 dead This is the 21th centry and acts of terrorism are rare in the westren world exept for the "Religion of Peace"
"Islam is responsible for nothing" they killed so much pepole caused a fucking slave trade by the arabs HITLER DID NOT PUT MUSLIMS IN GAS CHAMBERS that is a fucking fact it is also a fact that ISIS follows exactly what Muhhammed said "Why would muslim people apologize for having conquered north africa, middle east or Spain?" because of killing countlles of pepole in the procces notice how christians apologise for all the acts in the past while muslims dont

So why are the predomintly christian or atheist nations supporting of proggres while the Middle east is against it

Написано от RaulPB, 30.05.2017 at 14:39

Написано от Brsjak, 30.05.2017 at 13:43

THE CRUSADES
Ww2 was a conflict where most of the sufferes in Europe were slavs and jews not muslim muslims cooporated with Nazis
The Bible has violent quotes but do you see them practiced by Christians now Find a Christian theocracy that (exept vatican) and find how much muslim theocrachies are there
Islam is ressponisble for terrorist acts the organizations that do it are islamic and justify their actions with the Quran (which absolotly premits what they do)
+ there are tons of apologies from Amercians Spain and Europe for Native America and WW2 find a muslim apologies for the muslim wars of conquest

Those images only show our crusades but they do not show all the battles we've started to invade whatever european, american, asian or african country there is.
Those atrocities were started by Europeans... same as in ww1, hundred years' wars, etc.
Ofc they have been practised!! Just check all kind of "christian" racists in usa. Or just remember how the Inquisition worked. Every single religion has had its own violence... so what? We all have our violent moment, no matter what religion one follows...
Islam is responsible for nothing, never has islam aknowledged those terrorist groups as legit to their opinions. I can also justify killing by the bible but I still won't cause I ain't part of a terrorist group.
Why would muslim people apologize for having conquered north africa, middle east or Spain? As far as I know, they didn't commit genocide in Spain nor put us into gas chambers....

The Abbasid caliphate was the religious head of islam conquering land so what you said is untrue, Persia, the Lavant, and egypt where conquered by the spiritual leader of all muslims. The Fatamid Umayyad Almohad each had a caliph aswell all lead wars of conquest against europe. Only ones that really fit what you Said where the Turkish nomads who converted to islam.

Написано от Wheelo, 30.05.2017 at 13:40

See this is why the terrorist attacks keep on coming, people like you won't accept the fact that these are islamic attacks carried out by fundamentalist muslims. Not extremist christians, muslims. You can be as politically correct as you like, but it only leads to more and more undocumented immigrants, murders and terrorist attacks.

Sure, these terrorist groups are composed of extremist islam followers... so what's your point? They are still brainwashed people like there has always been. It's not the entire muslim community's fault that these guys allowed others brainwash them. In case that's how you feel, try to argument why is all of the muslim's fault that certain wing nuts become terrorists even when the muslim community despises them

Написано от Brsjak, 30.05.2017 at 14:58

As i said Europeans decolonized those places and paid reperations + in ww1 ONLY MUSLIM NATION TO GET ATTACKED BY EUROPEANS WAS OTTOMAN EMPIRE then they genocided Aremenians
Racism is alot and i mean alot diffrent then killing pepole because off their belief a recent stabbing by a white chirstian male was 2 dead and the most reacent muslim attack was 22 dead This is the 21th centry and acts of terrorism are rare in the westren world exept for the "Religion of Peace"
"Islam is responsible for nothing" they killed so much pepole caused a fucking slave trade by the arabs HITLER DID NOT PUT MUSLIMS IN GAS CHAMBERS that is a fucking fact it is also a fact that ISIS follows exactly what Muhhammed said "Why would muslim people apologize for having conquered north africa, middle east or Spain?" because of killing countlles of pepole in the procces notice how christians apologise for all the acts in the past while muslims dont
So why are the predomintly christian or atheist nations supporting of proggres while the Middle east is against it

Yes, we did. Because we've evolved into more critical societies, which muslims still haven't since they are still controled by religion, which we are not. That's what makes us better, not being chrisitians but having overcome all religious shit.
As if racism hadn't killed anyone in usa alone...
Islam did not kill anyone, crazy warmongers who follow islam did.
I don't see how europeans have apologized for all the deaths happening during the middle ages, right when islam was expanding itself and all those battles took place.
Because we've overcome religion, that's all. Anyway, we haven't brought much progress to middle east, just wars and inestability and terrorist groups funded with our money...

Написано от Helly, 30.05.2017 at 15:06

The Abbasid caliphate was the religious head of islam conquering land so what you said is untrue, Persia, the Lavant, and egypt where conquered by the spiritual leader of all muslims. The Fatamid Umayyad Almohad each had a caliph aswell all lead wars of conquest against europe. Only ones that really fit what you Said where the Turkish nomads who converted to islam.

I'm sorry but I don't seem to make sense out of this... what were you refering to exactly? Sorry

Написано от RaulPB, 30.05.2017 at 15:14

Написано от Wheelo, 30.05.2017 at 13:40

See this is why the terrorist attacks keep on coming, people like you won't accept the fact that these are islamic attacks carried out by fundamentalist muslims. Not extremist christians, muslims. You can be as politically correct as you like, but it only leads to more and more undocumented immigrants, murders and terrorist attacks.

Sure, these terrorist groups are composed of extremist islam followers... so what's your point? They are still brainwashed people like there has always been. It's not the entire muslim community's fault that these guys allowed others brainwash them. In case that's how you feel, try to argument why is all of the muslim's fault that certain wing nuts become terrorists even when the muslim community despises them

My point is the attacks are because of the religion called Islam. It's not as if these are one off occurences, There have been 60+ terrorist attacks since 2015, guess how many of them were done by muslims? You guessed it, 60.
"They are still brainwashed people like there has always been"
Disgusting. Here is the cowardly ideology on display once again. The fact that you think this has been happening often before 2015 is ridiculous. No, there has not always been these levels of "brainwashing" This is clearly an islamic terrorist uprising in Europe. I wonder if that has anything to do with Germany's open border policy?

Написано от RaulPB, 30.05.2017 at 15:28

Написано от Helly, 30.05.2017 at 15:06

The Abbasid caliphate was the religious head of islam conquering land so what you said is untrue, Persia, the Lavant, and egypt where conquered by the spiritual leader of all muslims. The Fatamid Umayyad Almohad each had a caliph aswell all lead wars of conquest against europe. Only ones that really fit what you Said where the Turkish nomads who converted to islam.

I'm sorry but I don't seem to make sense out of this... what were you refering to exactly? Sorry

You said Islam is not responsible but man is, islam was created by a man Muhammad, he himself was a Conqueror so what you said does not make sense.

Написано от Wheelo, 30.05.2017 at 15:30

My point is the attacks are because of the religion called Islam. It's not as if these are one off occurences, There have been 60+ terrorist attacks since 2015, guess how many of them were done by muslims? You guessed it, 60.
"They are still brainwashed people like there has always been"
Disgusting. Here is the cowardly ideology on display once again. The fact that you think this has been happening often before 2015 is ridiculous. No, there has not always been these levels of "brainwashing" This is clearly an islamic terrorist uprising in Europe. I wonder if that has anything to do with Germany's open border policy?

Correction: were done by muslim terrorist groups. That's what terrorists do no matter their ideology, right? Btw, you seem to forget how they've also attacked their own fellow muslims, so I highly doubt it all has to do with religion.

Ofc there has been, media are the modern way of brainwashing. And we're all under its influence. Before all this, it was religion brainwashing us into believing there's heaven, earth is flat, chemistry is witchcraft, etc. Brainwashing has always been there in our society, it's what leaders often use to control the population.

Написано от Helly, 30.05.2017 at 15:31

You said Islam is not responsible but man is, islam was created by a man Muhammad, he himself was a Conqueror so what you said does not make sense.

Oh I see. Yup, religion was created by men, but now men is manipulating or brainwashing people into following religion to the extreme. If not, all muslim people would be bombarding Europe.

Islam may justify violence against other religions, same as the bible does, but that doesn't mean we all need to act violently against them. That's what most muslim people firmly believe.

Написано от RaulPB, 30.05.2017 at 14:39

Islam is responsible for nothing

Написано от Viruslegion, 30.05.2017 at 15:52

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Islam, as a religion, is not. It's some men's responsability. Western countries fund them, extremist religious people fuel the hate and brainwash people.

Surprised you still take Raul seriously. He is cute and he mean well, but he has surpassed Tito level. At least Tito was fun. But there is nothing fun about writing the same Western apologetic logical fallacies and inaccuracies over and over again.

Super intellectual arguments like " Its not Islam but crazy people who follow Islam" that lead to "Its not Nazism but crazy people who follow Nazism". I know peaceful nazists.
The undefeatable argument of "Its only a minority" when that minority in numbers means 200 million people and knowing that it takes one suicide bomber to massacre a hundred, essentially means nothing.
Or unhistorical and plain ignorant statements like "Islam never killed anybody", like yeah tell that to Muhammad who started his "faith" conquest from a cave in Medina and nearly took over all Europe murdering left and right for Allah. Tell that to the Persians , oh wait they dont exist anymore, they erased them, tell that to the Byzantines, oh wait same. Tell that to Armenians, Serbs or Greeks, to Italians or Hungarians, tell that to Jews.Tell that to my grandmother who saw her father slaughtered in Izmir by the muslims.

Or how he carefully equate Christianity with Islam, blatantly ignoring not only the New testament but the reformations of Christianity aswell. Ignoring the fact that while Muslim unskilled and uneducated immigrants enjoy the fruits of our liberal democracies and welfare, at the same time hard working Christians in muslim countries have zero rights and are abused, opressed and attacked, atheists have it even worse. How civil rights are non existent, how slavery ( north african muslims kidnapped 2 million christians to be used as slaves, keep that in mind next time you bring up Western slavery) is still practiced and legitimized by the Quran. How the only religion still on the rise is Islam, how muslims over contribute to overpopulation, how they are the only faith in whos name terrorist acts still happen.

I could write a million more, but its of no use.

^^^ thank you

Написано от Khal.eesi, 30.05.2017 at 16:04

Surprised you still take Raul seriously. He is cute and he mean well, but he has surpassed Tito level. At least Tito was fun. But there is nothing fun about writing the same Western apologetic logical fallacies and inaccuracies over and over again.

Super intellectual arguments like " Its not Islam but crazy people who follow Islam" that lead to "Its not Nazism but crazy people who follow Nazism". I know peaceful nazists.
The undefeatable argument of "Its only a minority" when that minority in numbers means 200 million people and knowing that it takes one suicide bomber to massacre a hundred, essentially means nothing.
Or unhistorical and plain ignorant statements like "Islam never killed anybody", like yeah tell that to Muhammad who started his "faith" conquest from a cave in Medina and nearly took over all Europe murdering left and right for Allah. Tell that to the Persians , oh wait they dont exist anymore, they erased them, tell that to the Byzantines, oh wait same. Tell that to Armenians, Serbs or Greeks, to Italians or Hungarians, tell that to Jews.Tell that to my grandmother who saw her father slaughtered in Izmir by the muslims.

Or how he carefully equate Christianity with Islam, blatantly ignoring not only the New testament but the reformations of Christianity aswell. Ignoring the fact that while Muslim unskilled and uneducated immigrants enjoy the fruits of our liberal democracies and welfare, at the same time hard working Christians in muslim countries have zero rights and are abused, opressed and attacked, atheists have it even worse. How civil rights are non existent, how slavery ( north african muslims kidnapped 2 million christians to be used as slaves, keep that in mind next time you bring up Western slavery) is still practiced and legitimized by the Quran. How the only religion still on the rise is Islam, how muslims over contribute to overpopulation, how they are the only faith in whos name terrorist acts still happen.

I could write a million more, but its of no use.

Okey........

As a matter of fact, I don't know any nazy so I can't talk about them, but I do know muslims and they're not terrorists... that's quite a generalization from you, if all islam were terrorists, why wouldn't there be 200 million terrorists?

Islam hasn't killed people same as christianism hasn't either. It's people in the name of religion that kill or get killed...

Yeah, christianity has evolved since we people became a bit more critical thinking, so what? I am not saying it didn't, what I'm saying is that we've been through a similar stage as them as well. I'm not really sure if you are aware of the parallelisms yet no one seems to remember that. I do believe that islam people will or are evolving into a not so religious focused perspective of life, which is the same as we once went through. If instead of bashing on them like they were monkeys, you'd realize their potential as people, you may just think a bit more like me...

Also, stop it with the fallacies claim, I'm not even sure you realize you use them as much as anyone else. Also looking down on me for not being funny here is disgraceful of you....

What worries me the most is that self conviction you usually show of having the superior logic and arguments. Treating me as inferior doesn't mean my arguments are inferior as well.

Написано от RaulPB, 30.05.2017 at 15:55

Raul what you're saying is:
"Islam didn't kill anybody. It's followers did"

Let me tell you about something where that logic has been used in real life. It even happened about 2-3 months ago.

Her father was killed during the Kargil War in 1999 with Pakistan. This is an image from a video she put up.

She became a national laughingstock in a country of 1.3 billion people. You come to India and say the name "Gurmehar Kaur", everyone knows who you're talking about. "Oh yeah, she's that moronic college student who said Pakistan didn't kill her father, war did"
You know why?
Because by that logic, Osama and Al Qaeda didn't kill thousands during 9/11, a plane did it.
During the Paris shooting, Belgium shooting, Mumbai shooting etc, terrorists didn't kill hundreds, their guns did it.
Terrorists don't kill people, their bombs do.

That logic doesn't work man. If followers of Islam are killing people on the name of Islam, it's because it's teachings can be interpreted that way, and it's ridiculously easy to do so. The Quran itself calls for jihads on infidels. I'm not saying Christianity doesn't do the same. But if you tallied up the death count of Christian religious killings vs Islamic Religious killings, there'd be a big difference. Christian religious wars are history now. Also idk where WW1 and WW2 comes into the picture. They weren't wars fought over religion, so anyone saying WW1 is proof that even Christians kill, is plain wrong. World War 1 made religion almost irrelevant. The only thing that mattered was your country. If you're from the enemy's country, you get shot immediately. It was one of the biggest contributing factors to the wave of ultranationalism that swept across countries, and Mussolini, Hitler, Franco harnessed.

Commando Eagle, please learn from Raul how to have a civilized conversation without fully insulting about family or w/e background.

Props to you Raul to stay this proffessional yet so accurate.

Написано от Darth., 31.05.2017 at 03:19

Raul what you're saying is:
"Islam didn't kill anybody. It's followers did"

Because by that logic, Osama and Al Qaeda didn't kill thousands during 9/11, a plane did it.
During the Paris shooting, Belgium shooting, Mumbai shooting etc, terrorists didn't kill hundreds, their guns did it.
Terrorists don't kill people, their bombs do.

That logic doesn't work man. If followers of Islam are killing people on the name of Islam, it's because it's teachings can be interpreted that way, and it's ridiculously easy to do so. The Quran itself calls for jihads on infidels. I'm not saying Christianity doesn't do the same. But if you tallied up the death count of Christian religious killings vs Islamic Religious killings, there'd be a big difference. Christian religious wars are history now. Also idk where WW1 and WW2 comes into the picture. They weren't wars fought over religion, so anyone saying WW1 is proof that even Christians kill, is plain wrong. World War 1 made religion almost irrelevant. The only thing that mattered was your country. If you're from the enemy's country, you get shot immediately. It was one of the biggest contributing factors to the wave of ultranationalism that swept across countries, and Mussolini, Hitler, Franco harnessed.

Wrong, you're misinterpreting my logic. Guns don't kill, planes don't kill... people who are using it are the ones that kill. And if that was planned and funded by people, those people are as responsible as the guy shooting the gun. Islam, the religion, did not plan nor support terrorism (religious authorities do not support terrorist groups), yet some muslim people do. These last are responsible for it, not the religion itself. Also, if I may add, these terrorist groups are beeing funded by western societies and we sell them our weapons... so even we are kinda responsible for it, like it or not.

If islam was responsable for it, every single fucking muslim would be killing us! That's not the reality. Snap out of it...

Why do you guys keep misunderstanding my point? Not sure if its that hard to understand with all its implications but it's hard for me to keep correcting everyone's claims... What I am saying is: "Islam, the religion, is not responsible for terrorism, SOME of its followers indeed are responsible though"

Написано от RaulPB, 30.05.2017 at 15:42

Написано от Wheelo, 30.05.2017 at 15:30

My point is the attacks are because of the religion called Islam. It's not as if these are one off occurences, There have been 60+ terrorist attacks since 2015, guess how many of them were done by muslims? You guessed it, 60.
"They are still brainwashed people like there has always been"
Disgusting. Here is the cowardly ideology on display once again. The fact that you think this has been happening often before 2015 is ridiculous. No, there has not always been these levels of "brainwashing" This is clearly an islamic terrorist uprising in Europe. I wonder if that has anything to do with Germany's open border policy?

Correction: were done by muslim terrorist groups. That's what terrorists do no matter their ideology, right? Btw, you seem to forget how they've also attacked their own fellow muslims, so I highly doubt it all has to do with religion.

Ofc there has been, media are the modern way of brainwashing. And we're all under its influence. Before all this, it was religion brainwashing us into believing there's heaven, earth is flat, chemistry is witchcraft, etc. Brainwashing has always been there in our society, it's what leaders often use to control the population.

Have a scroll through this Raul: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_designated_terrorist_groups Whenever islamic terrorism is addressed you seem to see it as "another brainwashed terrorist", and seem to think this type and level of terrorism exists across all religions; it doesn't. This is specifically islamic terrorism carried out by muslim immigrants of middle-eastern descent. Sure, you have the Ku Klux Clan, who killed 28 people between 1951 and 1980.

But then, you have 3,081.

Написано от RaulPB, 31.05.2017 at 08:03

Wrong, you're misinterpreting my logic. Guns don't kill, planes don't kill... people who are using it are the ones that kill. And if that was planned and funded by people, those people are as responsible as the guy shooting the gun. Islam, the religion, did not plan nor support terrorism (religious authorities do not support terrorist groups), yet some muslim people do. These last are responsible for it, not the religion itself. Also, if I may add, these terrorist groups are beeing funded by western societies and we sell them our weapons... so even we are kinda responsible for it, like it or not.

If islam was responsable for it, every single fucking muslim would be killing us! That's not the reality. Snap out of it...

Why do you guys keep misunderstanding my point? Not sure if its that hard to understand with all its implications but it's hard for me to keep correcting everyone's claims... What I am saying is: "Islam, the religion, is not responsible for terrorism, SOME of its followers indeed are responsible though"

Those followers of the religion are certainly to blame, but the religion itself advocates violence, and religious heads throughout history have supported it (The Caliphs were similtaniously religious and political leaders, and Muhammad himself supported it.) The Islamic religion supports and condones religious violence, and thus more of it's followers turn out to be terrorists. Christianity doesn't, and thus there are barely any Christian terrorists (yes I know that isn't the only reason). It's a fact that if the Middle East was Christian there would be much less religious violence since Christianity for the most part condems it. That of course doesn't mean all Muslims are terrorists since not all of them consider their religion a particularly important part of their lives. Secularism is a thing. Western powers are definitely partially responsible for modern terrorism, but that is simply the political games of modern superpowers and are not of religious nature.

Also unrelated the suffix -stan is Persian and also used by Turkic countries but immigrants are for the most part neither Iranic nor Turkic so that's an idiotic stereotype.

Написано от Wheelo, 31.05.2017 at 11:30

Have a scroll through this Raul: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_designated_terrorist_groups Whenever islamic terrorism is addressed you seem to see it as "another brainwashed terrorist", and seem to think this type and level of terrorism exists across all religions; it doesn't. This is specifically islamic terrorism carried out by muslim immigrants of middle-eastern descent. Sure, you have the Ku Klux Clan, who killed 28 people between 1951 and 1980.

I've never said it does exist across all religions. Furthermore, this terrorism concept is quite recent. Nothing similar had existed in years past but I would pretty much consider the inquisition as terrorism if it had happened nowadays. And yeah, they were all brainwashed believers who were told to punish whoever didn't follow religious rules. In name of religion.

You're talking about what modernly would be considered as terrorism only. So what? In such context I would never deny that today's terrorism comes most from western funded islamic terrorist groups. Yet they still are religiously brainwashed extremists. Idk what's your point exactly.

Написано от Zephyrusu, 31.05.2017 at 11:39

Those followers of the religion are certainly to blame, but the religion itself advocates violence, and religious heads throughout history have supported it (The Caliphs were similtaniously religious and political leaders, and Muhammad himself supported it.) The Islamic religion supports and condones religious violence, and thus more of it's followers turn out to be terrorists. Christianity doesn't, and thus there are barely any Christian terrorists (yes I know that isn't the only reason). It's a fact that if the Middle East was Christian there would be much less religious violence since Christianity for the most part condems it. That of course doesn't mean all Muslims are terrorists since not all of them consider their religion a particularly important part of their lives. Secularism is a thing. Western powers are definitely partially responsible for modern terrorism, but that is simply the political games of modern superpowers and are not of religious nature.

Also unrelated the suffix -stan is Persian and also used by Turkic countries but immigrants are for the most part neither Iranic nor Turkic so that's an idiotic stereotype.

Christianity/ Bible has allowed and advocated violence as well. We've been able to overcome religion, they haven't yet. Only those more extremists and brainwashed by hatred act as terrorist groups and not only against western countries, even against muslim countries as well. So, what's your point?

Btw, in my own country there were spanish terrorists. So yeah, if there aren't any nowadays it's not due to religion exclusively as you just said...

And don't try to guess "facts", facts are not guessed. Stay in reality. I should remind you that christian countries are the ones selling mulims weapons and funding them.

Написано от RaulPB, 31.05.2017 at 11:56

Christianity/ Bible has allowed and advocated violence as well. We've been able to overcome religion, they haven't yet. Only those more extremists and brainwashed by hatred act as terrorist groups and not only against western countries, even against those muslims as well. So, what's your point?

Christianity and the Bible are actually against violence overall and while there are some violent parts they are just contradictory because the Bible is made up of many different sources and writers piled together. By contrast, the Quran was written by Mohammad, all of it, and rather than implications and bits here and there it is the book's main point when it comes to how to treat infidels. Also, there are plenty of Christians in the Middle East too and infact they make up around 10% of Syria and about half of Lebanon. Yet I see no Christian terrorists and extremists in the region, and no Druze, Yazidi and whatever other terrorists either. So no, it's not just that the Middle East overall is not as advanced, it is Islam itself that breeds this behaviour. Are you seriously trying to say that a religion that wants you to forcefully convert people of other religions is innocent and not to blame for any of its' followers extreme actions?

Replying to your edits, no, Muslim extremists are funded by far by Saudi Arabia, the gulf states, Iran and to a MUCH lesser degree the US, and that only indirectly because they didn't know who they were funding.

Написано от RaulPB, 31.05.2017 at 11:53

Написано от Wheelo, 31.05.2017 at 11:30

Have a scroll through this Raul: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_designated_terrorist_groups Whenever islamic terrorism is addressed you seem to see it as "another brainwashed terrorist", and seem to think this type and level of terrorism exists across all religions; it doesn't. This is specifically islamic terrorism carried out by muslim immigrants of middle-eastern descent. Sure, you have the Ku Klux Clan, who killed 28 people between 1951 and 1980.

I've never said it does exist across all religions. Furthermore, this terrorism concept is quite recent. Nothing similar had existed in years past but I would pretty much consider the inquisition as terrorism if it had happened nowadays. And yeah, they were all brainwashed believers who were told to punish whoever didn't follow religious rules. In name of religion.

You're talking about what modernly would be considered as terrorism only. So what? In such context I would never deny that today's terrorism comes most from western funded islamic terrorist groups. Yet they still are religiously brainwashed extremists. Idk what's your point exactly.

Correction: in the name of Islam. Again you are softening it by saying religion every time, refusing to realize they are being done in the name of Islam. It's pretty clear I am talking about the rise in islamic terrorist attacks in recent years. In regards to the western funding of ISIS, yes ,I realize the US had a part to play initially in the rise of ISIS financially, but for someone to say the US or any other western country is funding ISIS to this day is a ridiculous conspiracy theory.